Thread: France rejects veiled Muslim wife

I'm not saying it's bad to have immigrants. Quite the opposite.
I'm suggesting it's not to anyone's benefit to have these fortresses where the two sides rarely interact.

And yes, that's how I would describe them. Very, very little interaction. Geographic immigrants.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I'm not saying it's bad to have immigrants. Quite the opposite.
I'm suggesting it's not to anyone's benefit to have these fortresses where the two sides rarely interact.

And yes, that's how I would describe them. Very, very little interaction. Geographic immigrants.

I agree. All I'm saying is that it's fundamentally no different from what occured with the 'first wave' of immigrants. Given time these sort of barriers are broken down by an almost natural process; generation by generation there's more interaction. Language barriers go as the children of immigrants are educated together, their children even moreso (for just one example).

They go to Korean schools, Korean hospitals, Korean churches (yes they're usually Christian), read Korean newspapers ...

The first wave didn't have any of these -- and they assimilated. Not without a great struggle, but they assimilated. Today they don't have to assimilate if they chose not to. And many never do. Retaining your culture is a good thing. Refusing to become part of the culture where you've chosen to immigrate, is not.

French immigration authorities agree with me. I hope someday US immigration authorities might.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Texpat

I'm not saying it's bad to have immigrants. Quite the opposite.
I'm suggesting it's not to anyone's benefit to have these fortresses where the two sides rarely interact.

And yes, that's how I would describe them. Very, very little interaction. Geographic immigrants.

I agree. All I'm saying is that it's fundamentally no different from what occured with the 'first wave' of immigrants. Given time these sort of barriers are broken down by an almost natural process; generation by generation there's more interaction. Language barriers go as the children of immigrants are educated together, their children even moreso (for just one example).

The problem we are having in London now is the lack of assimilation there are schools that are 90% Black schools that are 90% Asian and schools that have always been 100% Jewish.

I do not know if it is because of Racial tension and differing communities moving into their own Ghettos, therefore not mixing and causing more racial tension. Or it may be because of sheer weight of numbers and new communities setting up in the cheaper areas.

The first wave of Polish workers that came in 4 years ago learned English, worked here for a few years and then took money home to build houses. The present wave of "New Europeans" seem much more isolationist.

Originally Posted by Texpat

They go to Korean schools, Korean hospitals, Korean churches (yes they're usually Christian), read Korean newspapers ...

The first wave didn't have any of these -- and they assimilated.

Italian immigrants built their own chruches and schools because they weren't accepted in others.

Where are these Korean schools you're referring to?

France has a particular problem because of it's colonial past in North Africa.
What she does in private should be her own concern but publically she should conform to the norms of the state.

^ Whatever happened to the Western "freedom of expression" concept, G2b?

Sadly that seems to be dying!
In my opinion it is like Sikhs not needing to wear crash helmets.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Going into Singapore a few weeks back a woman in front of me was asked to lift her veil by the female Immigration officer . . . the veiled one was reluctant and kept looking back at her husband in obvious fear (of what I don't know) and he looked none-too happy.
Eventually she was told that either she lifts the veil or she will be refused entry
. . . she lifted . . . and was let in.

Shocking!!! You mean she expected to be admitted to the country without even verifying who she was?

Do immigration officers in all countries make Muslim women show their faces for identification?

Was she visually identified when she left her country??

One could use rhetinal scans.

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

Sadly that seems to be dying!
In my opinion it is like Sikhs not needing to wear crash helmets.

LOL! Can't green you as of now. Gotta reload.

Originally Posted by chitown

Originally Posted by panama hat

Going into Singapore a few weeks back a woman in front of me was asked to lift her veil by the female Immigration officer . . . the veiled one was reluctant and kept looking back at her husband in obvious fear (of what I don't know) and he looked none-too happy.
Eventually she was told that either she lifts the veil or she will be refused entry
. . . she lifted . . . and was let in.

Shocking!!! You mean she expected to be admitted to the country without even verifying who she was?

Do immigration officers in all countries make Muslim women show their faces for identification?

Was she visually identified when she left her country??

I have witnessed veiled women being thoroughly searched at Dubai airport. They let them do their job without any resistance.

Originally Posted by panama hat

The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still identify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.

Part is correct and part is bullshit,, the only ones that add on XXX-American is the darkies as African-American, you call most others xxxx-American and get a whack in the chops, the rest might say Yea I am a WOP but you just suppose American as he knows he is so why have to say it.

Originally Posted by blackgang

Originally Posted by panama hat

The Irish, Italians and Germans set up their own communities too. They did as people naturally tend to do; congregate with their own kind. Sections of New York are famous for this and people still identify themselves (and are indentified by others) as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.

Part is correct and part is bullshit,, the only ones that add on XXX-American is the darkies as African-American, you call most others xxxx-American and get a whack in the chops, the rest might say Yea I am a WOP but you just suppose American as he knows he is so why have to say it.

S'funny blackgang. Because I know Americans that identify themselves as Irish-American, Italian-American and so forth.

It's highly unlikely any of themselves would identify themselves with a derogatory prefix such as "WOP" isn't it.

The difference is that the immigrants of past did not mind an "outsider" coming into the neighborhood to buy a German or Italian meal.

The police are afraid to venture into the Muslim neighborhoods in Europe.

True or not?

Originally Posted by chitown

The difference is that the immigrants of past did not mind an "outsider" coming into the neighborhood to buy a German or Italian meal.

I don't think that's strictly true. There are areas of certain racial constitution in certain cities all over the world where others are made to feel, at the very least, 'unwelcome'. It's yet another sad and sorry fact of human existence that people can not like others based purely on what race they are (or aren't, as the case may be).

The police are afraid to venture into the Muslim neighborhoods in Europe.

True or not?

No idea. They should perhaps seek a new line of work if they are though.

Some good reading. many pages, so here is an excerpt

Foreign Affairs - Europe's Angry Muslims - Robert S. Leiken


YOUR LAND IS MY LAND


Today, Muslims constitute the majority of immigrants in most western European countries, including Belgium, France, Germany, and the Netherlands, and the largest single component of the immigrant population in the United Kingdom. Exact numbers are hard to come by because Western censuses rarely ask respondents about their faith. But it is estimated that between 15 and 20 million Muslims now call Europe home and make up four to five percent of its total population. (Muslims in the United States probably do not exceed 3 million, accounting for less than two percent of the total population.)



France has the largest proportion of Muslims (seven to ten percent of its total population), followed by the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and Italy. Given continued immigration and high Muslim fertility rates, the National Intelligence Council projects that Europe's Muslim population will double by 2025.


Unlike their U.S. counterparts, who entered a gigantic country built on immigration, most Muslim newcomers to western Europe started arriving only after World War II, crowding into small, culturally homogenous nations. Their influx was a new phenomenon for many host states and often unwelcome. Meanwhile, North African immigrants retained powerful attachments to their native cultures. So unlike American Muslims, who are geographically diffuse, ethnically fragmented, and generally well off, Europe's Muslims gather in bleak enclaves with their compatriots: Algerians in France, Moroccans in Spain, Turks in Germany, and Pakistanis in the United Kingdom.


The footprint of Muslim immigrants in Europe is already more visible than that of the Hispanic population in the United States. Unlike the jumble of nationalities that make up the American Latino community, the Muslims of western Europe are likely to be distinct, cohesive, and bitter. In Europe, host countries that never learned to integrate newcomers collide with immigrants exceptionally retentive of their ways, producing a variant of what the French scholar Olivier Roy calls "globalized Islam": militant Islamic resentment at Western dominance, anti-imperialism exalted by revivalism.

As the French academic Gilles Kepel acknowledges, "neither the blood spilled by Muslims from North Africa fighting in French uniforms during both world wars nor the sweat of migrant laborers, living under deplorable living conditions, who rebuilt France (and Europe) for a pittance after 1945, has made their children ... full fellow citizens." Small wonder, then, that a radical leader of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, a group associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, curses his new homeland: "Oh sweet France! Are you astonished that so many of your children commune in a stinging naal bou la France [fuck France], and damn your Fathers?

page 2 excerpt

Foreign Affairs - Europe's Angry Muslims - Robert S. Leiken

GOING DUTCH

The uncomfortable truth is that disenfranchisement and radicalization are happening even in countries, such as the Netherlands, that have done much to accommodate Muslim immigrants. Proud of a legendary tolerance of minorities, the Netherlands welcomed tens of thousands of Muslim asylum seekers allegedly escaping persecution. Immigrants availed themselves of generous welfare and housing benefits, an affirmative-action hiring policy, and free language courses. Dutch taxpayers funded Muslim religious schools and mosques, and public television broadcast programs in Moroccan Arabic. Mohammed Bouyeri was collecting unemployment benefits when he murdered van Gogh.



The van Gogh slaying rocked the Netherlands and neighboring countries not only because the victim, a provocative filmmaker, was a descendant of the painter Vincent, the Dutch's most cherished icon, but also because Bouyeri was "an average second-generation immigrant," according to Stef Blok, the chairman of the parliamentary commission reviewing Bouyeri's immigration record. European counterterrorism authorities saw the killing as a new phase in the terrorist threat. It raised the specter of Middle East-style political assassinations as part of the European jihadist arsenal and it disclosed a new source of danger: unknown individuals among Europe's own Muslims. The cell in Hamburg that was connected to the attacks of September 11, 2001, was composed of student visitors, and the Madrid train bombings of March 2004 were committed by Moroccan immigrants. But van Gogh's killer and his associates were born and raised in Europe.

Being afraid of entering certain areas is certainly not exclusive to Muslim neighbourhoods - actually I'm not sure that is true at all . . .

Actually, both you and I grew up in a place that has quite a few areas like this - how about Cabrini Green?
I lived in Wilmette, went to school at Northwestern . . . I wouldn't ever have even thought about going near the place . . . I doubt there are many Muslims there.

South Auckland - Maori
Redfern (Sydney) - Aborigines
South-Central LA

No Muslims there.


I do agree with you that the religion itself is the cause/effect of alienation - from both sides.

Get outa here!!!!!!

I am from Edgewater on the North side.

Went to Senn High.

Edgewater? Hehehe . . . so close - my first job was at K-Mart on N. Elston.

Who would have thought you and I had something in common?!

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Well few farang have gained thai citizenship, just a heap of hoops to jump through. I think most dont want to jump through the hoops.

My Immigration Official contact says there is a quota on Westerners. And it is only a few hundred a year.

Meanwhile, back in good old Blighty........

BBC NEWS | Politics | Bail plan for illegal immigrants

I mean, you couldn't make this up could you? For a start how will they have the funds to pay for the bail? Answer: Having done something illegal.

And then to allow them back in? Why throw 'em out in the first place?

As for tagging, just unbelievable.

Its absolute nuts.

^ What I want to know is why we are allowing any new immigrants other than relatives of UK citizens or needed skilled labour into the country at all, given that England is now one of the most populated nations on the planet in regards to its size.

I think its to replace all those looking to go the other way!

Maybe in a few years time there will be a competition to replace the name with something more suitable?