Thread: US Presidential Campaign 2008

Obama is doing flippies on everything from Iraq pull-out times to free-trade issues. Seems to be based on which states he's pandering to. Political wolf in big hope sheep's clothing. The more he talks, the less I like him.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Obama is doing flippies on everything from Iraq pull-out times to free-trade issues. Seems to be based on which states he's pandering to.

He has to flip. He has to pander to interest groups.

If a candidate doesn't he/she doesn't get elected. Sad but true. In the USA, this started at least back in the 1830s. Democracy? Not the slightest, at the Federal level.

GW Bush, like his father, was a pretty big flip flop, and yet I didn't notice any conservatives outcry over his many flip flop,

Has it ever occurred to you that people sometimes, genuinely, have a change of heart or a change of mind? Why is that so sinister?

I don't want a leader so rigid and unyielding that he/she is unwilling to change positions if the situation warrants.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Has it ever occurred to you that people sometimes, genuinely, have a change of heart or a change of mind? Why is that so sinister?

Oh, yes. There are real changes of positions on issues. This is usually after a candidate is office, IMO. During a campaign, there may be genuine changes of positions also. And in these instances, the opponents usually make accusations of "flip-flopping," "Waffling" and, being "wish-washy."

I don't want a leader so rigid and unyielding that he/she is unwilling to change positions if the situation warrants.

I agree. I want a pragmatic person.

Yes, good point, Tex. As things change, I do expect a leader or anyone to adapt. But, Obama blasted NAFTA in the rust belt states, and then backed free trade in others, where it was more politically expedient to do so.
Is his Iraq position changing simply coz Wesley is on board?
The next few months will be time to really get to know the nitty gritty of the candidates.
I think McCain is smart to get some overseas touring in and get to know leaders. Whether the Columbia trip and freeing of hostages was fixed or not doesn't matter. It's good PR. All smart moves, IMO.

Now this is brilliant.

the Democratic nominee-in-waiting and Clinton will hold three fundraisers. Two events are scheduled for Wednesday night — one to raise money for his general election campaign and one to help pay off debts from her primary campaign

Let me get this straight. Hilary Clinton, who, together with husband Bill, made 209 million dollars in the past few years, and who lent her campaign 11 million to further her own career and legacy of her husband and herself, is now going hat in hand to ask hard working Americans to pay herself back for her failed attempt to grab power??????

Incredible.

Obama, Clinton to hold joint fundraisers in NY - Yahoo! News

^That's pretty rich, innit? 555555555

^HeyZues Christo is all I can think of to say.

Originally Posted by chinthee

Let me get this straight. Hilary Clinton, who, together with husband Bill, made 209 million dollars in the past few years, and who lent her campaign 11 million to further her own career and legacy of her husband and herself, is now going hat in hand to ask hard working Americans to pay herself back for her failed attempt to grab power??????

Reeks of an extreme case of Republicanism don't it. Hard working Americans contributing to enrich the rich!

Fools and their money.

Can't pay the mortgage on the house, but willing to prop up their heroes.

Not me.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Can't pay the mortgage on the house, but willing to prop up their heroes.

Guess they figure a better ROI than paying their mortgage.

This is why we are all expat refugees in the land of smiles.

FOR HIM BEFORE HE WAS AGAINST HIM: "John Kerry says that John McCain lacks the good judgment necessary to be president. Four years ago, Kerry wanted McCain to be his vice president."

Nothing less glamorous than sore losers.

Bugs:

This blogger and Clinton backer seems more than a bit put off by some of Obama's flip-flops/ moves toward the center

As Norton aptly, noted. Presidential candidates usually (but not always) flip-flop for a calculated political reason. Or, they just change their opinion on a complicated issue.

Obama's flip-flop (was it really a flip-flop?) might have been done to help him politically. Or, perhaps it was a change in his opinion.

(Norton, if you didn't say this, I'll delete my sentence and retract.)

Originally Posted by Milkman

As Norton aptly, noted. Presidential candidates usually (but not always) flip-flop for a calculated political reason. Or, they just change their opinion on a complicated issue.

Yep. I said that or the equivalent in one of the many threads where flip flops are a recurrent theme.

^ Are you sure? is that your final answer? Not to late to change your mind... ?

I don't think Norton said that. I think he's flopping to appear congenial. How pathetic.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I don't think Norton said that. I think he's flopping to appear congenial. How pathetic.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

^ Are you sure? is that your final answer? Not to late to change your mind... ?

For today I mean it. However, I do reserve the right to do a complete U turn if it is in my best interests.

There is a very fine line between idealism and stubbornness.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I don't think Norton said that. I think he's flopping to appear congenial. How pathetic.

Has ant got you on Ignore too, Tex?

Obama is showing his political swirly dirlies, that's all. Chasing the populist wind, IMO. And now to show his great appeal, he will stage the Dem convention in an open space so all of his adoring public can come, too. What a guy.
The more he shows hisself, the more I think he is a poser-monger and he will do nothing good for the country. He's just a "look at me, I'm a star, everyone loves me, I can do no wrong" kinda guy. He starts losing that appeal with weird policies, he will collapse. As prez, he cannot abstain from taking a stand on issues like he has as senator. People need to understand his run-away policies. Fluff with no substance. IMHO.

Just saw the following in Fortune magazine (and then spent the next 30min trying to find it on their website so I wouldn't have to write it all out myself ), a tax impact assessment of both McCain and Obama based on their respective policies.

I doubt there's anything in here that'll surprise anyone - strikes me as the usual/expected Dem/Rep tax split - but some may be interested to see nevertheless:




Of note to me is the stark contrast in both the top and bottom brackets. How on earth could anyone justify giving the richest people a -$269,364 tax cut and the poorest people a measly -$19. There's something seriously wrong with that picture.