Muslims against Sharia

**stroller** · 26-02-2008, 03:03 AM

Please provide the relevant references in Sharia law.

**KID** · 26-02-2008, 06:02 AM

^ the knob will defend anything ISLAM--fukin muzzie can't even walk his dog.

guess there good enough to eat, but not good enouh to keep as a pet????

**Driventowin** · 26-02-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

Please provide the relevant references in Sharia law.

So...Are you just being semantic or are you disputing the idea that it is against Sharia law?? And..If so then you are disputing the reasoning behind the Iranian conviction? I'm curious then, what would your reasoning be for the arrest and conviction of this elderly man walking his dog in a Muslim country??

It is on topic but addtionally the thread was going no where until it was bumped so it wouldn't be a major crime if it were to take a new direction would it?

**machangezi** · 26-02-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

I'm not sure where to put this article, so I'll put it here.

I've read and heard that Muslims don't like dogs (among other animals), but I think this story below is just another reason why this cult is disturbing.

Originally Posted by Driventowin

It never ceases to amaze??

You know it occurs to me that every where else in the world dogs are considered everyone Else's best friend... But what is it that dogs are supposedly to be the exposure and the enemy of in biblical references?? Anyone know the answer? Maybe that's why they are so disliked by Muslims? It certainly gives one pause..

It isn't like what you guys think! Muslims do/can have dogs (come n see it in Pakland). There's just one restriction! Dogs can't get in to the prayer room. I have dogs at home, well three of them, who I love like my kids. The only problem with dogs is that they walk over their pee thus are not allowed to get inside the prayer room.

Here are my kids!

You see how much I love them, I spend hours to enhance their photos.

Yes I am a Muslim.

**Driventowin** · 26-02-2008, 03:36 PM

Very nice Macha, so then how about some insight as to why this elderly Iranian was arrested and convicted of walking his dog in Iran??

He wasn't walking it in a prayer room, it was on the street. Are you considering Sharia law??

**machangezi** · 26-02-2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Driventowin

Very nice Macha, so then how about some insight as to why this elderly Iranian was arrested and convicted of walking his dog in Iran??

He wasn't walking it in a prayer room, it was on the street. Are you considering Sharia law??

Can you give me any reference from Sharia law that prohibits Muslims from having dogs?

You n I know it well that Iranians and Saudis are nutters.

**Driventowin** · 26-02-2008, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by machangezi

Originally Posted by Driventowin

Very nice Macha, so then how about some insight as to why this elderly Iranian was arrested and convicted of walking his dog in Iran??

He wasn't walking it in a prayer room, it was on the street. Are you considering Sharia law??

Can you give me any reference from Sharia law that prohibits Muslims from having dogs?

You n I know it well that Iranians and Saudis are nutters.

No.... I can't... Not being Muslim I was asking you for your insights...and was wondering...I guess now needlessly, based on your second response if you followed Sharia law? But I guess you are more moderate...

If you don't follow it though, maybe that is what they were basing this decision on I see no other reasoning? And now you've just reinforced that confusion... Just my attempts at greater understanding is all.. By engaging in meaningful discourse..

**stroller** · 26-02-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Driventowin

So...Are you just being semantic or are you disputing the idea that it is against Sharia law?? And..If so then you are disputing the reasoning behind the Iranian conviction? I'm curious then, what would your reasoning be for the arrest and conviction of this elderly man walking his dog in a Muslim country??

I am asking for evidence what Sharia law has to say about dogs, not disputing anything, since there is nothing there to dispute as yet.

Seems every time I question assumptions and prejudices of the Islam-bashers here a barrage of insults follows (see KID's post)...
Not my fault you guys talk out of your arses and then go ballistic when shown up for posting crap.

And no, I cannot explain Iranian law - do your own research.

**machangezi** · 26-02-2008, 04:01 PM

Driventowin let me try to explain in as few sentences as I can.
Why Muslims regard dogs as dirty animal?
Unfortunately, someone fabricated hadith which claims that the prophet ordered the killing of dogs and told his followers not to keep dogs.
Driventowin, if you look at the Quran you will find no such claims.

The lord tells us in the Quran about the story of the dwellers of the Cave. He tells us that they were good believers and that the Lord guided them.
In verse 18, the Lord tells us that they had their dogs with them. Now if dogs are prohibited and dirty, would the Lord say that the dwellers were “good believers”?

If you look at Chapter 5 verse number 4, you will find that the lord tells us that it is OK to eat what your dogs have hunted for you. If dogs were dirty, would the Lord say that it is OK to eat what they have caught with their mouth?

**Driventowin** · 26-02-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by Driventowin

So...Are you just being semantic or are you disputing the idea that it is against Sharia law?? And..If so then you are disputing the reasoning behind the Iranian conviction? I'm curious then, what would your reasoning be for the arrest and conviction of this elderly man walking his dog in a Muslim country??

I am asking for evidence what Sharia law has to say about dogs, not disputing anything, since there is nothing there to dispute as yet.

Seems every time I question assumptions and prejudices of the Islam-bashers here a barrage of insults follows (see KID's post)...
Not my fault you guys talk out of your arses and then go ballistic when shown up for posting crap.

And no, I cannot explain Iranian law - do your own research.

Stroller what is this all about? My post (that you have quoted)didn't warrant any amount of animosity let alone the amount that you've thrown at it?? My questions to you were legitimate and intended to have better clarity of your post before debate so as not to go off on a tangent without proper understanding.

As should be obvious by my exchange with Macha I'm asking many of the same questions that you are...Besides as I have stated numerous times before.... I'm not a Muslim basher.. I am firmly against the extremist point of view (I.E. Sharia Law) but not all Muslims..And my opposition to extremist contentions is not limited to Muslims either..It applies to any/all extremist religion contentions..IMO there is no place for those in today's modern, civilized society..

**machangezi** · 26-02-2008, 04:36 PM

Driventowin, I hope it's clear now.

**Driventowin** · 26-02-2008, 04:45 PM

No Macha it isn't.. I'm not questioning the Quran... I'm questioning Iran?? And their reasoning for arresting and convicting this elderly man just for walking his dog on the street? On what basis did they do that? If they follow Sharia law or any Muslim law that must have ultimately had some influence on their reasoning..

**machangezi** · 26-02-2008, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Driventowin

No Macha it isn't.. I'm not questioning the Quran... I'm questioning Iran?? And their reasoning for arresting and convicting this elderly man just for walking his dog on the street? On what basis did they do that? If they follow Sharia law or any Muslim law that must have ultimately had some influence on their reasoning..

Well, I really can't say anything about Iranian laws. It sure isn't (all their laws) based on sharia is what I can tell.

The only think I wanted to clearify is that Islam doesn't prohibit any Muslim from having dogs.

**stroller** · 26-02-2008, 05:26 PM

^
Thanks, so it has nothing to do with Sharia law.

**barbaro** · 26-02-2008, 06:45 PM

To reply to many posts above.

On a Muslim forum (sorry no link to it) I asked about Muslims not owning/considering dogs to be good, etc. The replies to me (to paraphrase!) were that a Muslim could have a dog to guard the house if it was kept outside, but dogs are considered unclean, and that Muslims should not and do not have dogs in their home, nor keep them as pets.

One loose link: This info was from "sunniforum.net"

**Driventowin** · 26-02-2008, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by machangezi

Originally Posted by Driventowin

No Macha it isn't.. I'm not questioning the Quran... I'm questioning Iran?? And their reasoning for arresting and convicting this elderly man just for walking his dog on the street? On what basis did they do that? If they follow Sharia law or any Muslim law that must have ultimately had some influence on their reasoning..

Well, I really can't say anything about Iranian laws. It sure isn't (all their laws) based on sharia is what I can tell.

The only think I wanted to clearify is that Islam doesn't prohibit any Muslim from having dogs.

Well thanks for your input, there is still some uncertainty surrounding the reasoning it's not clearly understandable so the subject is still open for interpretation.. Thanks though Macha..

**stroller** · 26-02-2008, 07:02 PM

It is still open for somebody to show that it is related to Sharia, but it seems this was empty rhetoric based on ignorance and assumption...

**KID** · 27-02-2008, 06:23 AM

have ya checked the doggie cassarole section of your cook book stroller ???

good to see ya posting again macha

**Norton** · 27-02-2008, 08:22 AM

Interesting debate re Islam and dogs. Found this site that does a good job of explaining sources of Islamic practices regarding dogs. Worthwhile reading!

"No statements regarding dogs as unclean are found in the Quran but they abound in the various collections of traditions (Hadith). These traditions are a primary foundation of Islamic theology and are the basis of many Islamic laws. They render dogs as "impure" and worse. All Hadith are from the Sahih collections of Bukhari and Muslim, or the Sunan of Abu Dawud. After the Quran, Bukhari's set of Hadith are regarded to be the second most important books in Islam, followed closely by the Hadith of Muslim."
Muhammad and Dogs

**Dalton** · 01-03-2008, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by machangezi

Unfortunately, someone fabricated hadith which claims that the prophet ordered the killing of dogs and told his followers not to keep dogs. Driventowin, if you look at the Quran you will find no such claims. The lord tells us in the Quran about the story of the dwellers of the Cave. He tells us that they were good believers and that the Lord guided them. In verse 18, the Lord tells us that they had their dogs with them. Now if dogs are prohibited and dirty, would the Lord say that the dwellers were “good believers”?

I think this Mohammed guy has twisted the words for his own bennefit and believe, The Lord as you call him, seems to have a different wiev on many things. One problem I see, is that there is a counter for almost any rule in the Quran, even when it comes down to eating pork.
What confuses many none muslims is the fact of so many dobbelt standards in Islam and the way that radical and moderate muslims choses to understand the Quran.

**Driventowin** · 02-03-2008, 01:10 AM

You know and there is a certain propagandising that goes along with all of this anyway on behalf of Islam.. All that is heard lately is how misunderstood it is and such by other religions and how we require understanding and knowledge but is all of this educating a two way street??

I think the ignorance and lack of tolerance of other religious beliefs is just as much a problem on the Muslim side of the table if not more so but with even less interest or even allowance to understand since that too is supposed to be considered a sin in Islam.. Most recent case & point is the kidnap and detention of the Korean missionaries in Afghanistan who their captors claimed were preaching Christianity..So what?? That should be an acceptable exchange of thoughts and ideas..And then allow the people to make up their minds for themselves. But that is what ultimately terrifies Muslim extremists the most..That introduction to other ideas, free, independent thought and beliefs..

I also believe that an education and level of sophistication of other religions has to be achieved in order to be tolerant and accepting of a persons right to believe how they want and the preponderance of Muslims are not to that level and much of their religious teachings deplore the principle of reaching that level of understanding..

Here in lies another problem. How many Bible interpretations has the Bible gone through?? And while it is far more tolerant and less misunderstood look at how many different ways it is still translated to this day? The same for the Torah..
How many incarnations has the Quran gone through? My point is there needs to be an evolution and a sophisticating of a religious belief along with the education of society and modernizing for a modern world to make them compatible..

IMO that hasn't occured yet with much of Islams followers and the Imams that preach it..

**KID** · 02-03-2008, 02:49 PM

^ Very Good Point

**machangezi** · 02-03-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dalton

I think this Mohammed guy has twisted the words for his own bennefit and believe, The Lord as you call him, seems to have a different wiev on many things.

Dalts a very simple answer to your above statement. Muslims scholars are very clear about this issue. According to them any quote of Mohammed that contradicts with the Quran is null and void. Simple as that.

What confuses many none muslims is the fact of so many dobbelt standards in Islam and the way that radical and moderate muslims choses to understand the Quran.

Sorry Dalts but that ain't true mate. It would have been a solid statement, if you had said "double standards in Muslims" not Islam.

Islam is "a way of life" and Muslims are the followers. There's nothing wrong with Islam but there're many things wrong with the way Muslims follow it.

**Norton** · 02-03-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by machangezi

There's nothing wrong with Islam but there're many things wrong with the way Muslims follow it.

Seems to be a plague within all religions.

**Driventowin** · 02-03-2008, 03:13 PM

^Yes...I was just saying the same thing.. However which view point has the widest belief in the Muslim community is the real concern.. Which is the minority and which is the majority?? At this point in time that is the prevailing question and the internal struggle going within the Muslim community..

Unlike most other religions, for them this question has already been vetted out for the most part.. There are fringe movements and radical ideas but they are in the minority..

Originally Posted by Machangezi

Sorry Dalts but that ain't true mate. It would have been a solid statement, if you had said "double standards in Muslims" not Islam.

Fair enough statement and speaks in line with my view point as well..

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