Thread: US Presidential Campaign 2008

Obama gets applause for blowing his nose!
Does this say something about his erudite supporters?
link

^ No, it says he's popular!

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

it's the TAXES, stupid!

Why is it then that Republicans are incapable of balancing a budget, and GWB took a surplus and turned it into the largest deficit in American history?

Hmmm?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Back to the elec. I see Barack has garnered major grassroot support. Any thoughts on this folks? Will the corporations and industries let him muscle in? Sure, IMO, grassroots is good if you have a plan to sustain and improve the economy. Giving away via taxes the profits of people who have a vision and the motivation to make their biz work (aka Ayn Rand) will only cause these people to move their business elsewhere. Then where will the hand-outs come from?

Fair point, and I am certainly waiting to see some numbers rather than visions and campaign promises from all of the candidates. But give him his due, Obama's a smart cookie- prolly the most cerebral of any of the contenders.

I think the upper 10% of net worth people in the States can expect to pay more tax, whoever gets in. It has never seemed fair to me that they can get away with paying a lower rate of tax to the nation that afforded them their fortune than the middle and working classes.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

grassroots is good if you have a plan to sustain and improve the economy

Therefore grassroots is bad if you don't have a plan? Is that your point? Is this how your copy as a "journalist" reads? It's cognitively dyslexic.

Another Canadian socialist comment from you, Hootie. Of course it's bad if you don't have a plan. No matter what party. Grassroots folk often think the gov has a big fat coffer that they just need to break like a pinata and then everyone will be rich!

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Giving away via taxes the profits of people who have a vision and the motivation to make their biz work (aka Ayn Rand) will only cause these people to move their business elsewhere. Then where will the hand-outs come from?

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Well, thanks for the economics lesson. What are we supposed to do now, ban taxes? GWB's budget dwarfs Reagan's, and guess what: it's based on taxes! It's the largest deficit in American history - from a Republican. Care to explain that for us, too? Your Fischer-Price grasp of the topics at hand is entertaining

Oh, boy, you are a Canadian socialist. Taxes and the fiscal deficit are not related honeybunny. Of course we all need to pay taxes; governments don't sell cola for a living. Duh. Some country admins are better at managing that money, and funds they also receive from the Treasury market (you know, they offer bonds to investors for a certain percentage rate so they can use the money for stuff that taxes do not cover. Duh.)
Face it Hootie, you just want a socialist world, where someone who worked hard to get an education, excel in work and expand in business is cut down coz the people who say they didn't have that chance (ie, were too fekin lazy or stupid to go for it) now want to reap the benefits of the people who did work their butts off to succeed.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, back to the leading contender aka Obama and this Obamania sweeping the country and Europe. Found a good quote with which I agree 100%:

"Obamania really is a dangerous phenomenon. It represents the kind of future that many less intelligent and less discriminating "liberals" long for. All of Europe is gaga over Obama. They know what he is all about as do our pothead, magical thinking Obamaniacs. He's all about stopping thinking, stopping taking responsibility and just going with the flow."

No shit - and besides, it's the TAXES, stupid!

Please provde a link for the above, quote, Tex. You have to cite it. Can you do so within 2 hours?

And as for taxes: it doesn't matter.

All 3 candidates, including McCain are big spenders.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

^Peewee perhaps you should stick to less confusing issues.
Like: why wasn't Helen Clark prosecuted for forgery?

Perhaps you'd like to stick to the issue period, Earl. This is a thread about the US Presidential comapaign.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Taxes and the fiscal deficit are not related honeybunny.

Well I'll be jiggered. Here all this time I thought if I spent more than I made I would be in debt.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Grassroots folk often think the gov has a big fat coffer that they just need to break like a pinata and then everyone will be rich!

Actually, many grassroots groups are anti-tax.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Taxes and the fiscal deficit are not related

Why not?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Face it Hootie, you just want a socialist world, where someone who worked hard to get an education, excel in work and expand in business is cut down coz the people who say they didn't have that chance (ie, were too fekin lazy or stupid to go for it) now want to reap the benefits of the people who did work their butts off to succeed.

Most taxes come from the middle class; GWB cut taxes for the rich. Is that what you're talking about?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I like this Tucker host

You mean this Tucker host?



He was fired from his prime hosting job on CNN's Crossfire after getting badly owned on live television by Jon Stewart regarding the last primary. Basically, he was full of the usual GOP rhetoric, but with nothing to back it up, and he got stung, and stung very badly, on national television:

Jon Stewart on Crossfire.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

^ But socialized medicine makes it cheaper for General motors to relocate in Canada, for instance, since they no longer have to cover employees' medical insurance. Which is why auto workers are being laid off in the US and hired in Canada, where these jobs strengthen the tax base and provide local communities with long-term, high-paid jobs.

That it does, strengthen the tax base. That's a crock about the med coverge, Hootad. The unions crippled the cos with wage demands and total bennies, like pension plans.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

And what about corporate welfare? What about governments routinely bailing out failed or fraudulent banks and businesses with political connections, like the savings and loan debacle? Or the Enrons and Worldcoms squandering employees' pensions? Who's supposed to pick up the bill for that?
You guessed it, the taxpayer.

Well, Hootad, if the gov didn't bail them out, what would happen to all the taxpayers' money in those institutions?

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

You say most governments run on a deficit.
Not "socialist" Canada: British Columbia Budget and Fiscal Plan 2007/08 - 2009/10

What "deficit"? Taxes in Canada have remained steady. Meanwhile, property values continue to increase across the country and the economy is still growing. Why do you insist the US, with it's legions of poor, tax breaks for the rich, and gargantuan debt, has a better system?
It doesn't. It's a crap system.
How about posting some actual data for a change.[/quote]

Did I say Canada, specifically, but as I did say, why hoard a surplus? You want to talk Canada, OK. Why a surplus when the healthcare system is feked (you know it is; not enough docs and nurses who are underpaid and split to private clinics or the US, overcrowding and underfunded hospitals, continued cancellations of operations, etc). How abut the homeless, incentives to self-employed folks, more funding for the police, schools, libraries. What are they saving it for? A takeover of the US? Churn that money back into the economy. Building up infrastructure? Sure, Hootad, you know what political connections you need in Canada to get a gov contract? Well, I do coz I know people in the forestry and construction industries. Alot of those tax dollars get shifted into contractor backpockets, too.

The main reason Canada is flush with cash is our natural resources (oh, maybe the gov is saving the $ for the day we run out). Funny, too, our utilities bills are higher than in the States -- because Canada gets more $ for our power from places like California where energy demands are much higher. So, they charge us more for what's left.

I wrote a letter to a local paper awhile back about how the city gov squandered its casino tax income.

I was much amused by the "City announces latest round of casino cash recipients" article.
As you noted, the city's press release states that "the funding will support a mix of capital asset purchases that directly contribute to diversity in arts, culture, heritage, amateur sport and community safety."
I was wondering where XX Business Improvement Association's $21,500 of decorative banners fits in there -- culture, heritage, or community safety? I thought biz assns got together, planned improvements to make their shopping areas more snazzy, paid for these upgrades, and then everyone involved wrote off the expenses.
And how about the XX Festival Society: $22,278 for children's inflatables? I hope that's not for twist and tie balloon animals like Sparky the Clown makes at kids parties.
My other favourite was $1,500 for XX Community Association's reader board. That must be a really nice board.
So, there were 59 applications for grants, and 29 were granted. Wonder what the 30 other ones were asking for."

So tell me Hootad, why does Canada hog a fiscal surplus? And why does it need to keep interest rates high, basically slowly strangling our exporters? I imagine the automakers who came across the border are in a flummox now that the loonie is strong. They should have stayed in the US, kicked out the fekin unions and got on with it.

And, please also tell me why consumer goods prices are so much more expensive in Canada than they are in the States (even before the loonie strengthened)? Why is local wine so expensive (I can buy a great chablis for $5 in Seattle, but it costs $15 or more for a BC wine.) Even Canadian beer is cheaper in the States. And how about local produce prices? Even in the summer they are two or three times higher than local stuff in the States.

You've been brainwashed really well, Hootad. Spoonfed Canadian crap by the leftie papers and happy to succumb to whatever the gov tells you to do. You sure you lived and worked overseas?

February 08, 2006

GM's Woes Bode Ill for All Americans

It’s pretty easy to blame General Motors for its declining fortunes in the global car market. When gas prices were low, they took the easy path to profits by churning out gas-guzzling SUVs, which escaped the fuel efficiency standards by masquerading as light trucks. They ignored hybrid technology and instead focused their technologists on pie-in-the-sky hydrogen vehicles, which are decades (if ever) away.

But yesterday’s decision to slash pensions and health care benefits for GM’s retirees and salaried workers, following similar cuts for unionized workers, bodes ill for all Americans. The employer-based system that the public has relied on to provide these benefits since World War II is collapsing.

In recent months, bellwether companies like GM, IBM and Verizon have joined the thousands of U.S. corporations, whether headquartered in Silicon Valley or Bentonville, Ark., which no longer provide guaranteed pensions and health care for their employees. Instead, they are turning to a system that provides individual retirement accounts in the form of 401(k)s and capped health care insurance plans supplemented with individual health savings accounts.

In the world that has been slowing arriving over the past two-and-a-half decades, it is every man/woman for him/herself. And if conservatives can get their way on school vouchers, they’ll extend the new social insecurity into childhood.

There is something deeply American about this urge to go it alone. Huck Finn striking out for the frontier, and all that. But it is radically at odds with how the rest of the world is dealing with globalization.

The easiest example to cite is Japan, whose Toyota Motors yesterday declared a huge increase in profits and will soon become the largest car company in the world. In Japan, the government pension program (the equivalent of Social Security) picks up a far larger share of retirement income and Toyota workers enjoy the benefits of a national health insurance program.

Today’s Wall Street Journal front page story on the collapse of pension programs in the U.S. carried some useful comparisons. “Employer pension plans are far less significant in continental Europe, and health-care costs are lower in nearly every other country. . . Health-care systems in some countries, such as the United Kingdom and Canada, are financed through general tax revenue. In Germany and several other European countries, all employers and employees pay for health care through a payroll tax. The per-person health-care tab is smaller, and the systems provide universal coverage,” the business paper of record reported.

But here, employers and the Republican-led government are opting for a system that embraces individual risk sold to the public as individual choice. You get to choose what health care coverage you want or need. You get to manage your own retirement investments. Woe unto you should you bet on a dot.com, or a GM. And if you decided to skip going to the doctor for a pain in your side in order to save your health savings account for a rainy day, too bad. That cancer is too far gone to treat.

GoozNews

In any case, to get back to the OP, a lot of Americans are worried about this ^ sort of thing, and for good reason, imho.

For brevity, I'm not going to copy/paste your whole litany of twisted press releases and graphs, Hootad; PS, your charts are out of date.

I just read the BC Hydro link which says rates will rise 300%.

You posted a graph for US power rates -- where's the Canuck comparison? 1960-2006?

Cdn interest rates are strong, which keeps the loonie inflated and makes it tougher for exporters to profit (coz they cannot always raise prices in overseas markets).

My letter to the editor included facts from the local govt's press release.

Savings & loans -- may I remind you, I said the gov bails them out or the little guys with savings accounts there will lose all they have. So a director takes out a loan for $300K? It's a loan, not a skim.

Why do YOU keep deriding the US if cos like Starbuckies are paying employee health care?

US prices are cheaper coz they use low-paid illegal immigrant workers? 555 Yep, gee, what about all those Indian farmers and their Mexican workers in BC? 555
It's coz we are taxed to the max, Hootad. Our tax rates are steady? Maybe your income tax rate. What about the higher costs and taxes slapped on companies that they then pass on to us?

Japan's benefits. 555 Cannae find Toyota, but I do know most mfgs have shifted their production to cheap overseas plants, like China and Thailand. Here's one quote from a Denso article:
Workers at Toyota's main supplier lack health insurance coverage
"I thought I'm without health insurance coverage because I'm not a full-time employee. But I feel insecure about working without health insurance coverage," said a woman worker in her 20s working at the Nishio plant of Denso-Corporation in Nishio City, Aichi Prefecture.

Denso is Japan's largest supplier of car parts mainly for Toyota Motor Corp. which keeps making more than 1 trillion yen in annual profits.

The woman lives in a small dormitory room of about five square meters provided by a firm which has a contract with Denso. She receives about 100,000 yen a month after dormitory and meal costs are deducted. She has neither employee health insurance nor unemployment insurance coverage, or the employee pension plan. Denso neglects its legal obligation to provide health insurance coverage to all workers, including temporary workers or workers on contract who work for two months without interruption.

Workers at Toyota's main supplier lack health insurance coverage - GTcars – Car Forum for the Greater Toronto Area
Oh, sorry, that's from a blog site. (not any worse than Wiki, IMO)

Sounds pretty good, eh, Hootad? Please remember that lots of Japanese, who previously worked their whole lives at ONE firm are being laid off.

BTW, I worked in Japan and was covered by their national "healthcare system" for which I paid. I had a slight prob, went to the docs several times, then to the Cancer Institute, where it took three more tests for them to figure I needed my female parts removed. I said FO. Came to Canada and my old fam doc said "bulltwat", did a day surgery and I was off (yes, dear, Hootad, I paid the $5,000 for that surgery all by myself). Tried to claim that cost with my JPN health insurance and they gave me back about $10, saying I could have had it done in Tokyo. 555555555555555

I worked hard to get my education that I paid for (except for a few scholarships for my good grades) and I work dam hard for my money. I reckon I should be able to dispense it to charities, not some govt with hairbrain ideas of what to spend it on. (Oh, I do remember something about the NDP's wonderful high-speed ferries and who can forget their cheap-cheap car insurance plan that all you tree-hugging Canadians scammed?)

Hilary seemed a little resigned towards the end of the last debate. Then there was the bad omen of a policeman escorting her entourage getting killed last week. Now the Op Eds are having a go:

A referee would stop the fight. Hillary Clinton is exhausted, and her supporters are becoming increasingly demoralized. The candidate who tried to present herself as inevitable has been out-maneuvered nearly every step of the way...

Just a few months ago, the prevailing wisdom in the world of punditry was that the Obama campaign was in trouble. Senator Clinton was enjoying a huge advantage in fund-raising and big leads in national polls.

A pair of headlines placed side by side on the front page of The New York Observer in October said: “Aaaaugh-bama!” and “Clinton Campaign Gets in Gloat Mode with $27 Million.”

Senator Obama, according to the conventional wisdom, was too soft. His call for a new kind of politics was naïve. And quietly, behind the scenes, the widespread view was that he couldn’t get enough white votes to secure the nomination.

No one outside the Obama campaign was paying much attention to the disaster for the Clintons that was already taking shape in Iowa.

There’s nothing like the terra firma of hindsight. Senator Obama, it turned out, was a far more gifted candidate and strategist than many of us gave him credit for. And Senator Clinton, for all of her command of the issues, was mediocre, at best, on the stump. He was the inspirational leader. She remained the wonk.

And then there was Bill. It was an article of faith that Senator Clinton’s campaign had a built-in advantage: her husband was the smartest Democrat of them all. But when you think about it, Bill Clinton was never much of a benefactor for others in his party.

When he took office in January 1993, Democrats controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. Less than two years into his presidency, the Republicans swept to majorities in both houses, putting Newt Gingrich in line to become speaker. A New York Times article at the time described Democrats in the House as “disoriented.”

When Mr. Clinton left office in 2001, the Republicans were still in control of Congress, and the Monica Lewinsky scandal and impeachment had opened the door to the era of George W. Bush.

The former president’s less-than-magic touch in Senator Clinton’s presidential campaign contributed to her devastating defeat in the South Carolina primary. He’s been kept more or less under control since then.

You can analyze the Clinton campaign every which way from sundown. But I suspect that the senator’s biggest hurdle from the beginning was the unforgiving nature of time. The tides of history change. Some of Barack Obama’s young and most fervent supporters were just three or four years old when Bill and Hillary Clinton were joined by Al and Tipper Gore for a remarkably successful bus tour through eight states to kick off their campaign against George H.W. Bush and Dan Quayle in 1992.

The Clintons and the Gores seemed the embodiment of youthful promise, of change, and that turned the country on. Their campaign theme song was Fleetwood Mac’s “Don’t Stop,” with the crucial lyric, “Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow.”

Barack Obama, who is 46, the same age that Bill Clinton was on that bus tour, has managed in his campaign to make the Clintons seem the embodiment of yesterday. “Something better awaits us,” he told a cheering crowd after his victory in Iowa, “if we have the courage to reach for it.”

Senator Clinton’s options are not officially closed. But to have any chance at all, she would need a sudden startling string of prodigious victories against a candidate who is better-financed and riding a tremendous wave of momentum.

At the debate on Thursday night, Senator Clinton, who is 60, passed on a number of opportunities to harshly criticize Senator Obama. She refused to say that he was not ready to serve as the nation’s commander in chief. And she suggested that she does not intend to pursue a ruinous fight for superdelegates at the Democratic convention.

She seemed like someone unwilling to sacrifice her dignity or the interests of her party in an attempt to stave off a likely defeat.

Hillary on the High Road? - New York Times

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

You must start thinking for yourself, Hootad.

Applies to raycarey as well.
Good little soldier in the Marxist army...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

You must start thinking for yourself, Hootad.

Applies to raycarey as well.
Good little soldier in the Marxist army...

And which right-wing blog is that little chestnut from? Instead of all the cutting 'n pasting you could just provide the links, it's all going to be the same anyway.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

You are brainwashed, Hootad, and you side-stepped most of my points and twisted others.

You have yet to respond to a single point with a link to a factual source Why's that?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

You brought up Japan's healthcare, not me.

Actually the example from the article I posted was about the superior pension plan offered to Toyota employees, and how Toyota can offer superior benefits to American auto companies and still eclipse them and become the world's #1 automaker, a rank no longer held by General motors.

Another example of the "superior" American system?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I did not say US power rates were cheaper, I said that our rates are higher coz we send our power to the US

This is what you said:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Funny, too, our utilities bills are higher than in the States -- because Canada gets more $ for our power from places like California where energy demands are much higher. So, they charge us more for what's left.

Apparently, you can't remember what you said and I can't understand what you're saying Ok? can we get back to the OP, now?