Bush Wins Agreement To Freeze Mortgages

**Spin** · 12-12-2007, 10:34 AM

When the interest rate cut was announced yesterday by the FED the markets went down like a hummingbird with a bowling ball strapped under its wing.
Dow fell nearly 300 points, the first 90 of which occured in about 12 seconds by my watch. Scary stuff.
The yanks have made their bed, now they gotta lie in it.

**Butterfly** · 12-12-2007, 10:42 AM

they were expecting 50 points, they only got 25, that's why it tanked. The new guy in charge shouldn't yield to the ridiculous pressure of the bank crowd

I also note that Greenspan is declaring that monetary policies (the cornerstone of modern capitalism) doesn't work when there is too much savings feeding a bubble. What he forgot to mention is that too "much savings" come from the rich who have too much money to fool around and not enough good ideas to invest into, hence making those foolish bubble investments. Maybe increasing taxes and more responsible fiscal policies could have solved all that ?

We are at a crossroad where money supply theories have reached their limits, and it's time to come back to a keynesian model (money demand)

**barbaro** · 12-12-2007, 12:19 PM

DJIA 13432.77 -294.26

-2.14% • NASDAQ 2652.35 -66.60

-2.45% • S&P 500 1477.65 -38.31

-2.53%

MSNBC - Stocks & economy news - Stock, bonds & mutual Funds - Wall Street top stories - up to the minute stock prices. Front Page

Dow doesn't mean a lot being 30 blue chips. S & P matters, and it was down 2.53%

Overall for the year, it's down.

**chinthee** · 12-12-2007, 12:28 PM

^Yeah, but it is down for many reasons and is expected to be down.

**raycarey** · 12-12-2007, 12:37 PM

will the S & P drop to 1325? 1250?

btw, regarding the subprime mess.....is anyone else at all concerned that treasury secretary paulson was the goldman CEO when the CDO shenanigans were taking place?

**Texpat** · 12-12-2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Spin

The yanks have made their bed, now they gotta lie in it.

As you well know, foreign banks are complicit too.

Everyone trying to make a buck.

**barbaro** · 12-12-2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by chinthee

^Yeah, but it is down for many reasons and is expected to be down.

I agree.

And as for the housing, next year (2008) will be very interesting. This is when we'll see what other ripple effects there may be.

**Boon Mee** · 12-12-2007, 10:34 PM

Well, everything is indeed going Bush's way these days? Tremendous economic growth, record low unemployment, a record 51 straight months in which jobs have been created. The housing fiasco is hardly a ripple and the surge is working ain't it? heh...

TheHill.com - Bush suging, not fading, as tenure's end nears

**Texpat** · 12-12-2007, 10:40 PM

Not all good news.

37% approve of Bush.
27% approve of Congress.

Update on Ratings of Bush, Congress

**Boon Mee** · 12-12-2007, 10:53 PM

The 37% figure is due to the deranged BDS sufferers...

**Tchiowa** · 12-12-2007, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Tremendous economic growth, record low unemployment, a record 51 straight months in which jobs have been created. The housing fiasco is hardly a ripple and the surge is working ain't it? heh...

Are you high on heroin ?

Tremendous Economic Growth ?

Do you want to see the amount of debt America is in , Thanks to that ass clown Bush...

Must be the air you're breathing back in USA that is causing you to be so delusional ;-)

**Jet Gorgon** · 17-12-2007, 09:26 PM

China is watching and laughing.

**chinthee** · 17-12-2007, 09:29 PM

^Nooo, China is not laughing. They don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden Chinese 1000 year egg.

**Jet Gorgon** · 17-12-2007, 09:37 PM

^Oh, but they are. They are just waiting, and they are verrry good at waiting.

**chinthee** · 17-12-2007, 09:41 PM

^They've gotten pretty impatient in modern years. I think they're too tied up in spiraling growth and meeting expectations of 1.2 Billion people.

Times change in China too.

**Jet Gorgon** · 17-12-2007, 09:46 PM

^But they are long-term planners.

**chinthee** · 17-12-2007, 09:48 PM

^Honestly, I see a different sense of urgency these days. I do travel and do business there several times/yr and have done so for more than 20 years now. This is a completely new environment. I'm afraid there's no going back.

**Jet Gorgon** · 17-12-2007, 09:51 PM

^ OK, the folks are changing, but I still think govt policy is mega long term. Hence the buy-up of oil areas in Sudan, buildup of the army, cautious friendships with the west. They dump goods and say sorry and then dump more.

**sabang** · 17-12-2007, 10:04 PM

The Chinese are patient alright. They buy land thinking of the next generation.
Their patience will be tested however by the financial crisis that awaits them. I won't be surprised to see some riots.
Still, they'll get over it. Just growing pains really.

**chinthee** · 17-12-2007, 10:08 PM

I don't see it the way you people think. Yes, they have a history of patience. But I really believe those values are over. This huge population has a big appetite. Think of the USA x 4. That's the monster we're all facing...not including India.

God help us all.

**sabang** · 17-12-2007, 10:17 PM

They are also very impatient. Rampant speculators.

**Tchiowa** · 17-12-2007, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

They are also very impatient. Rampant speculators.

Is that why they smoke so damm much.

Gheez those fokers doing the poop squat everywhere smoking up a storm.

**Butterfly** · 18-12-2007, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, everything is indeed going Bush's way these days? Tremendous economic growth, record low unemployment, a record 51 straight months in which jobs have been created. The housing fiasco is hardly a ripple and the surge is working ain't it? heh...

fucking christ Boon, you need to stop shooting that shit into your arms

**Hootad Binky** · 21-12-2007, 03:23 AM

This subprime thing has gone from reselling bad subprime debt from northern Missippi into a recession-starting, stck-tumbling, $2-trillion fiasco:

Subprime Shocks, U.S. Bank Dividends, Trackers' Demise: Timshel

Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Aftershocks from the collapse of the U.S. subprime-mortgage market this year are taking an increasing toll on companies worldwide.

In the U.K., banks' reluctance to make money available to each other following the subprime debacle helps explain why home prices fell 3.2 percent this month. This decline is the steepest since Rightmove Plc, Britain's most popular online real-estate site, started providing figures in 2002.

``Buyers face limited availability of mortgages at attractive rates'' because lenders depend largely on ``log- jammed'' money markets for funding, the Milton Keynes, England- based company wrote in a report yesterday.

U.K. homebuilding shares declined in response to the data. Their second-half losses are now more in line with those of their U.S. counterparts. The average drop for the half among six builders in the FTSE 350 Index is 27 percent, just one percentage point from the comparable figure for the industry's half-dozen worst performers in Standard & Poor's benchmark U.S. indexes.

Australia's Centro Properties Group fell even harder yesterday after disclosing that ``tightened credit conditions'' prevented the company from reaching agreement with its banks to refinance A$1.3 billion ($1.12 billion) of debt maturing in May.

Centro, which suspended dividends and said asset sales may be needed to pay down debt, plummeted 76 percent. Centro Retail Group, a real-estate investment trust that the Melbourne-based company manages, tumbled 40 percent.
Peripheral Victims

Companies based outside the U.S. have been part of the subprime mess, a byproduct of loans made to less-creditworthy borrowers, from the start. HSBC Holdings Plc, Europe's biggest bank, foreshadowed what was coming when its loan-loss provision in February exceeded analysts' forecasts by 20 percent.

What makes the latest setbacks more unsettling is that they have relatively little to do with the U.S. housing market. Among the biggest U.K. homebuilders, only Taylor Wimpey Plc does much business there, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Centro is a mall and shopping-center owner, not a residential builder.

The decline in the average asking price for U.K. homes has much to do with the local market as well. For starters, the Bank of England's base rate is 1.25 percentage points higher than the comparable U.S. benchmark, making loans more expensive.

Yet the U.S.-inspired withering of credit markets is clearly affecting the housing industry. The average price in London fell 6.8 percent, more than twice the national average. Thirty-two areas of the city had declines, the survey found.

Following Retailers

Any housing-related weakness in U.S. retail sales may hurt Centro, which spent $3.7 billion in April to buy New York-based New Plan Excel Realty Trust. The National Retail Federation, a Washington-based industry group, and other forecasters expect the slowest growth in holiday sales since 2002.

Retailing stocks have tumbled in the U.S. as well as the U.K. this year, so yesterday's plunge in Centro didn't come from nowhere. That said, it shows just how far and wide the subprime- related tremors are spreading.

Bloomberg.com: Opinion

**barbaro** · 21-12-2007, 03:55 AM

These losers deserve what they get.

I have no sympathy: the lenders were frauds, and the "buyers" ignorant.

Let it go.

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