Thread: Racism. Can it be justified? I think so.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

In the UK if you are a white, middle class, middle aged, educated, law abiding hetreosexual male then you are the most discriminated person in the country and it is all legal

Isn't there a Kleenex smilie for these self-pitying posts?

This is the sort of thing you hear in a go-go when you get interupted by the pathetic git sitting next to you. When he isn't former SAS, that is.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

What I call proper racism has all but been eliminated today. What you will never stop and you most certainly legislate against is simple name calling. The word racism has now been changed out of all reality to what it used to mean. When you cab be dragged to the highest court in the land for simply calling a ticket inspector nothing more than a Welsh maggot there is something wrong with the law.
If I say as I used to back home " do you fancy a chinky tonight dear " it wasn't in any way shape or form a racist slur. Today it is.
It is OK to call me a Brit, Just shortened from British but not OK to shorten Paki from Pakistani. WHY ?
In the UK today only white people seem to be able to be racist.
When I started junior school many years ago my old mum said son " Sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you " and she was dead right.
I have worked on construction sites around the world and have been called every name under the sun and it has never once bothered me in the slightest.
If a lot more people lived by the above we might just get along a lot better.
As it is white people see black people playing the race card with ease and it rubs people up the wrong way.
In the UK if you are a white, middle class, middle aged, educated, law abiding hetreosexual male then you are the most discriminated person in the country and it is all legal
A cnut is a cnut no matter what colour his skin is

Hi Big Fella. Thanks for taking the time to answer this post, it's appreciated.

However, the question i'm asking is, and what i am trying to keep this post about is -

Can racism be justified? By this i mean, If you walk into a situation or location where there is a black guy / Arab / Chinese or anyone else of colour except white do you instantly feel loathing, hatred, fear or some similar feeling? Do you pre-judge that person and perhaps instantly despise them? And in my case with blacks and Arabs until THEY prove themselves to be different from my pre-disposition towards them. Mines may be a racism from experiance, but it's still racism.

Mr Mau, please. Your above comment does nothing to strengthen this post. In trying to belittle this chap that took the time and effort to reply, you are doing yourself and your credibility no favours. Your previous comments have been most welcome. Please don't turn this into a slanging match. Thanks.

Dave B

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

I doubt that I will ever see Vietnamese as anything other than pop-up targets.

I was tempted to make a crass reference to an "interesting" evening spent with three of HCMC's finest in KL once, but I won't.

Brutal honestly from the Knowltonmeister though. Top work.

People who are deliberately overtly not racist are just as dangerous as the thugs aberlour described though. What I mean by that are those who go to extreme lengths to not be seen as in the slightest bit racist, and in doing so, excuse and condone some pretty horrendous activities as a result. I mentioned in on another thread saying that if an Indian or an African cold calls me I will assume it is a con more than a Brit, Aussie or an Yank did. To be fair, it is stupid because the whities are more likely to be calling with the scam, especially in Asia.

As an example, imagine you are taken to a party by a mate, know noone and your mate buggers off and leaves you a room with this lot.



Now asaide from thinking your mate knew some fucking weird people....who would you most likely chat with?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

People who are deliberately overtly not racist are just as dangerous as the thugs aberlour described though

It's the fervent anti-racist mob that can be just as bad.
Like you hear PC parents gushing that thier child is attending a massively mixed race school , well , why should that matter , surely all that matters is thier child will be going to a school with other children , and if they are all say '' white '' what of it .
A real non racist is someone who simply does not see race .

Originally Posted by pseudolus

imagine you are taken to a party by a mate, know noone and your mate buggers off and leaves you a room with this lot.

Not a pleasant thought .
Or how about your capital city London starts looking like this ...

Due to mass immigration and Londons local governments policy of giving immigrants almost exclusive priority in cheap social housing , few Indigenous Brits can afford the high private rents so leave ,and now East London looks like this.^

Maybe the above are nice friendly people , but sadly they will just turn Britain into a 3rd world dump .

And as only the European race can produce genius , and as it is genius that drives the world forward with inventions, ideas , art, etc.
So my justification for been racist and keeping Europe mostly indigenous, is to ensure there is a place for the next Charles Darwin , Issac Newton , Van Gough , Shakespear etc to be born .

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

I doubt that I will ever see Vietnamese as anything other than pop-up targets.

I was tempted to make a crass reference to an "interesting" evening spent with three of HCMC's finest in KL once, but I won't.

Brutal honestly from the Knowltonmeister though. Top work.

People who are deliberately overtly not racist are just as dangerous as the thugs aberlour described though. What I mean by that are those who go to extreme lengths to not be seen as in the slightest bit racist, and in doing so, excuse and condone some pretty horrendous activities as a result. I mentioned in on another thread saying that if an Indian or an African cold calls me I will assume it is a con more than a Brit, Aussie or an Yank did. To be fair, it is stupid because the whities are more likely to be calling with the scam, especially in Asia.

As an example, imagine you are taken to a party by a mate, know noone and your mate buggers off and leaves you a room with this lot.



Now asaide from thinking your mate knew some fucking weird people....who would you most likely chat with?

Socal, on the right, would be entertaining.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

Mr Mau, please.

While I do appreciate your wish to keep this thread free of slanging and focused on the question of whether "racism can be justified", you seem to have missed the point of Mr Bigfellas's post altogether, that is to say that the worst racism he encounters is that against himself.

So I suppose you would have to ask whether racism against "white, middle class, middle aged, educated, law abiding hetreosexual males" is justified or not.

In my opinion, it would be, as seeing a privileged wanker whine on in such a fashion is more than a little disgusting.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

Of course their are plenty of people that defy the sterotype, i'd be a stupid fool not to know this.

Technically you're not a racist then. If you can appreciate that you would have to be a fool, for not realising that there is good and bad in every single walk of life, then surely you owe it to yourself not to judge people solely based on the colour of their skin. Because trust me on this one mate, whether you can see it or not, that does make you look like a fool, and you clearly don't seem like a fool to me.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

But i have found that majority rules and i have negative feelings about someone i meet until THEY can prove to me otherwise, not the other way about.

Why not stay neutral until you have been given enough information to make a logical judgement call?

By having negative feelings from the get go, and admitting that there are "people who defy the sterotype" then you are also admitting that you will definitely be wrong some times. That seems like a very defeatist way to live. Knowing before you've even left your house in the morning, that you will definitely be wrong about some of the people you meet. My desire to be right as often as I can wouldn't allow me to live like that personally.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

YOU would and have already formed that opinion in your post. What if a couple of those lads were actually nice boys? Welcome to racism. Shall i send you an application form?

That's a perfect example of the lack of logic in a racists way of thinking.

Those two things you describe as being like for like, aren't remotely so and that's where the problem lies.

When I saw "England's finest", I was judging them on THEM. I was making a decision based on factual information, the dirty clothes they were wearing, the shouting obscenities at the top of their voices, the staggering in the middle of the road with their eyes barely open because they are so fucked, and bull terriers running off their leads in the middle of the road.

I was given enough information to make a logical judgement call, and can defend my opinion with factual evidence. You however, want to take a black woman sitting on a bench, wearing nice clean clothes, not saying anything, not doing anything, and you want to judge her based on what? Based on the colour of her skin and the actions of other people that aren't remotely connected to her except by race.

The fact that you would liken your illogical, (which you admit will be wrong many times) thinking, to my logical, rational reasoning, is the very problem we have with racists. Their thought processes are highly illogical yet they just can't see it.

If you want like for like using my example it would be this. After seeing those scum bags, I decide that I know longer like anybody that drinks beer during the day. Or I decide I know longer like anybody that keeps a bull terrier as a pet.

I'm sure you can see how mental and illogical that would be, yet that's exactly what racists are doing.

P.S Kudos for being able to discuss it like an intelligent person, unlike all the other racist cretins on here.

Here's a little story of reverse racism, or just stupidity. My cousin in Birmingham was renting out a room in his house, put an add in the paper. I happened to be at his house when the prospect renters were arriving to have a look. mostly students and one black guy in a BMW, who allegedly had a job as a part time cleaner in hospital.
My cousin believed me to be akin to a neo Nazi, I was Old Bill and said anyone, . but the black guy.. Part time job and fairly new BMW, alarm bells. Cousin was one of those that blacks etc could do no wrong, it was all the fault of the racists, fitting them up for crimes just because they were black.

With in a week things started to go wrong, my cousin who wouldn't even allow smoking began coming home to a house that stank of dope,. Next he was coming home from work to find 5 or 6 black guys all passing round joints to all hours of the morning as well as noise.

Cousin politely suggests that his tenant should move else where, as things weren't working out well. As could be predicted, the guy said you only want me out because I'm black and I am going to report you to the counsel.

Cousin was on his way to being branded a racist land lord by the local Government. The matter was resolved by other means . Jim

Originally Posted by Aberlour

black woman sitting on a bench

what if there are not enough benches and I or another British person want to sit down ?
Why doesn't she fuck off home and sit under a tree in Africa, assuming her countrymen have bothered planting any ?

^



I thought that was little bit funny.

I'm sorry .

[quote=Aberlour;2463353]

Originally Posted by rovingdave

Of course their are plenty of people that defy the sterotype, i'd be a stupid fool not to know this.

Technically you're not a racist then. If you can appreciate that you would have to be a fool, for not realising that there is good and bad in every single walk of life, then surely you owe it to yourself not to judge people solely based on the colour of their skin. Because trust me on this one mate, whether you can see it or not, that does make you look like a fool, and you clearly don't seem like a fool to me.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

But i have found that majority rules and i have negative feelings about someone i meet until THEY can prove to me otherwise, not the other way about.

Now this is one of the better posts. For myself anyway.

You see, as i said at the beginning, i didn't set out on my travels (33 years ago it would be now) as anything slightly resembling a bigot or a racist or feeling in any way superior to any human being regardless of race, creed, sex or culture. However, as time passed and the more countries i lived in or worked in, the more untrusting, then jaded, then racist i became. In many respects, It's a terrible failing on my part i know.

But from being on the receiving end of some absolutely awful racism against myself and colleagues over the years, by people barely out of the gutter, then believe me, it turns you. The very worst place i was in was Ras Shukeir. A BP/Gupco camp 6 hours drive south of Cairo. 1200 Arabs and 24 of us.

We had Arabs shitting on our doorstep. We had many threats posted through our doors. We were robbed more than once and when we took it to the Gupco top brass to complain (BP had more or less pulled out) we were told that muslims don't steal and if we lied again we would be thrown out the camp. We were on month on month off roatation so i got 6 months constant of this.

I've had, as stated many a bad time in Nigeria and to a lesser degree Angola, by horrible, ignorant fucking no better than savages, whose next stop is the UK if they possibly can.

I have had in in many countries. I have also had some of the best times in my life in far flung countries like most in South America, Mexico, Vietnam, Ghana, Republic of Congo, Gabon etc and these places restore my faith in humanity, and then i'll go to China or Indonesia and those fuckers destroy it again.

I don't wish to meet these people and form judgments or have an instant loathing of them. Despising someone you don't know is irrational and small minded, i know that. I hope against hope my children never have to feel it. But I do.

I have reached the point where i would quite happily remove a race of people (yes, i know that's all pie in the sky), but if i could i would and not lose a moments sleep over it.

'Why not stay neutral until you have been given enough information to make a logical judgement call?'

Well i do stay neutral really. I remain quiet and say nothing really. I can't stop thinking the way i do though. Now, unlike some of the situations i have been in and some of the things i have seen people do, i am not a savage at heart.

I would never single out a coloured person in a crowd, whilst surrounded by people i know and shout obsenities, make snide remarks or otherwise bother them. I'm not a mindless savage. But trust me, most of them in their own countries would if were against a white guy. Most of these backward people have no hesitation in trying to rip you off, steal from you, harass you or hinder you any way they can. they seem to see no wrong in it. This can be shrugged off for the most part and was by myself in the beginning, but after you get it in one country, then another, then a few good ones, then some more bad ones, it changes you.

I now feel i have to be on the offensive. I feel i am better than these people. I've made my way in this world and made a success of it and have a loving stable family.

Who the fuck are these people to decry me? Who the fuck do they think they are to try and put me down. I've been in Thailand 8 years now. Yes they have many faults, but so do i. I feel this is home even though sometimes i get pissed off a bit.

I'm tired of travelling to shitty 3rd world countries as that is where oil companies need us expats. If it was a first world country then their own people could do the work. Please don't start posting excuses for these people. I've heard it all. They are not interested past their next meal and when they can go back to sleep.

They have had their chances of self government and have fucked it all up royally. Time for white Europeans, Australians and Americans to take over again i reckon and force our own sets of rules on them.

Tks

Dave

Good post Dave, heartily agree, my oppinions are not formed by ideolgy , but by experience. If a certain breed of dog keeps attacking people, you form the opinion that that breed is dangerous. Not heard of a lot of attacks by Labradors , rotties and Pitbulls yes, but the PC people would say it's not the breed, but the dog and all dogs are equal. Jim

Originally Posted by blue

Originally Posted by Aberlour

black woman sitting on a bench

what if there are not enough benches and I or another British person want to sit down ?
Why doesn't she fuck off home and sit under a tree in Africa, assuming her countrymen have bothered planting any ?

Originally Posted by terry57

^



I thought that was little bit funny.

I'm sorry .

very funny - I do love it when someone comes out with stuff so overtly non PC akin to Alf Garnett. top work fella

^

Yep, like Allen in " The Hangover " movies.

Fooking brilliant.

Originally Posted by rovingdave

Can racism be justified? By this i mean, If you walk into a situation or location where there is a black guy / Arab / Chinese or anyone else of colour except white do you instantly feel loathing, hatred, fear or some similar feeling? Do you pre-judge that person and perhaps instantly despise them? And in my case with blacks and Arabs until THEY prove themselves to be different from my pre-disposition towards them. Mines may be a racism from experiance, but it's still racism.

I think the argument gets a bit bogged down when you start worrying about defining labels like 'racism' and 'prejudice' etc. As long as your feelings or reactions are rational and in proportion to the things you honestly believe to be true about members of that race based on what you have experienced or otherwise learned then you are in a sound position.

Even if you expect the worst and are on your guard you can still try, within reason, to allow the individual the freedom to behave in an unexpectedly positive way and if they do you can alter your previous opinions.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

There really is no "PC" idea to strip cultural identity.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

PC is all about reinforcing cultural identity and relabeling "foibles" as "culture" so that things like wife-beating are a terrible crime if a white Englishman does it and culturally acceptable if a black Muslim does it.

That's what I said, and so did you. Only difference is that you contradicted yourself in the same paragraph

Originally Posted by mao say dung

"Hate speech", which many would identify as nothing more than a "PC" nostrum, is already illegal.

Obviously not or at least in practice.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

So I suppose you would have to ask whether racism against "white, middle class, middle aged, educated, law abiding hetreosexual males" is justified or not.

In my opinion, it would be, as seeing a privileged wanker whine on in such a fashion is more than a little disgusting.

Interesting : So you feel that discrimination is acceptable against people whom you dislike . You are not anti racist/ predujice / discrimination as a whole , you just disagree with it when it happens to people whom you like, but you participate in it when its against people whom you dislike .
You are the same as everyone else who discriminates .

Originally Posted by Aberlour

I would like to hear logical and rational reasons, why the people who are happy admitting to being racists, would rather have one of those low life junkie thieving pieces of shit, living next door to them instead of the black woman and her daughter?

Nobody then? Didn't think so.

Originally Posted by Aberlour

Originally Posted by Aberlour

I would like to hear logical and rational reasons, why the people who are happy admitting to being racists, would rather have one of those low life junkie thieving pieces of shit, living next door to them instead of the black woman and her daughter?

Nobody then? Didn't think so.

really ?
you thought wrong then ,
because it was answered but mod deleted .

In the U.K it is not a matter of choice,private or social housing,anybody can move in,or be moved in next door to you. If private then You will have to borrow thousands from the bank to mortgage a new move to a new home.
It is pointless asking who you would like to live next door to you.

maybe you liberals should not have , as good as legalise cannabis in the uk ,
the results of low lifes smoking it everywhere are not pretty .
Then you tax beer and wine so much the chavs have to drink chemical cider which makes them even more angry and less healthy .

^Erm, how much does cannabis cost the NHS each year Blue? How much does alcohol cost it?

How much does alcohol cost per year in policing? How much policing costs per annum do you think cannabis would cost were it of a similar legal status?

I think you'll find that if any drug could be described as a major problem in the UK it wouldn't be weed mate.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

That's what I said, and so did you. Only difference is that you contradicted yourself in the same paragraph

As a native speaker, I use the verb "to strip" (as in your suggestion that it is PC to "strip cultural identity") to mean "to remove or minimize". For the same reason, I use the verb "to reinforce" to mean "to strengthen" (as when I mentioned "reinforcing cultural identity).

So, no.

Cannabis just seems to knock out the last spark of energy and ambition in them , the filthy thick chavs , they just lazily wonder around with little zeal for life , stupefied after free basing some crap tranquilizing substance in public - perhaps that was the governments plan .