Racism. Can it be justified? I think so.

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 06:50 PM

This thread more or less takes over from one posted yesterday about perceived or real social threats in Australia by Aborigines. The post more or less collapsed under a storm of verbal attacks mainly with cries of ‘racist!’ or ‘you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about!’ etc, etc ad nauseam.
Well, why don’t we sit down and discuss it like reasonable men? In this thread, if you are racist then please say so. But don’t just come in and say ‘it’s cos black bastards deserve to be shot’, and leave it like that. That’s just meaningless twaddle. Discuss why you are racist and give some valid reasons.
Conversely, if you abhor any form of racism then please say so and again, give reasons, not just ‘I hate effin racists because they are stupid.....’.
I’ll start.
I am racist. I form pre-conceived thoughts and ideas whenever I meet or see someone else of colour rather than white before they even open their mouths.
However, my thoughts and ideas come not from mindless repetition of insults or pre-conceived thoughts borne from peer pressure or from family when I was younger, they come from experience and a wide knowledge of peoples and places throughout the world, as I have travelled, lived and worked in most of the major continents and many, many countries within them.
If I see or meet a black person, then I am instantly on my guard. But mines isn’t a racism about colour it’s about people. If I find the black person is from Ghana, Gabon, republic of Congo then I’m more inclined to chat to the fella or lady and maybe even get on with them. However if they are from Nigeria or Angola then not a chance. They are two of my most favourite west African countries that I’d like to press the button on and blow every black fucker that lives there to kingdom come.
Same if they are middle eastern, then most of them deserve nuked. If they are from Saudi or especially Egypt (more than especially Egypt) then I’d like to press the button that causes widespread suffering to all the peoples there as a quick death to the rag heads is not good enough. Funnily enough, the only really nice middle east people I met and never ever had a problem with (well except for the idiot police but that was expected) were the Iranians.
Don't even get me started on mainland Chinese, Singapore Chinese or Thai Chinese. I'd love to go back to Victorian times, wander around Singapore and just smack every Sing Chinese i meet with my riding crop.
So, I shan’t go into any more detail about myself at the moment. I’d just like to throw the question out there.........

Are you a racist and can it be justified? If not, say why not.

Thks,
Dave B

**pseudolus** · 26-05-2013, 06:52 PM

^ why did you ever leave your home town?

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 07:06 PM

Well my home town was Aberdeen, Scotland until i was 12. Then, being an oil field brat as we are called when our dads work all over the world and we go with them, i started living overseas in Bogota, Colombia, then a few more more south american countries until i went back for further education in the UK and then have kept on travelling.

I don't live in the UK as i really don't think it has very much going for it actually. It's a very poor choice of country to live in as far as i am concerned. There are so many other places that are just fantastic. I never ever started off racist, quite the opposite.

However experiencing many countries and people's ways of living their lives and how they treat others with absolutely no concern for anything or anyone except themselves has jaded me over the years, i'll admit it. It doesn't change the fact that I (note i have said the singular 'I') believe the world would be so much better off without certain people and even races. The Aboriginal saga yesterday being a point in note. Stop helping them and let them die out, they will be no miss to anyone. And as for 'whites' taking their land, well, succession by stronger people and races is as old as mankind itself and is perfectly acceptable. Look at the British Empire, the Roman Empire, Ghengis and Khubla Khan, they dominated inferior people. That's how mankind has always worked.

**Davis Knowlton** · 26-05-2013, 07:13 PM

Although I am not certain I would term it 'racist' in all cases, I think that we are all prejudiced to one degree or another, mostly based on our life experiences. I have never lived in, or visited, Africa, thus have no strong feelings about Africans one way or the other. I have lived in Saudi, and loathe them. I lived for seven years in Southwest Asia, and don't have very positive feelings for Indians, Bangladeshis, or Pakistanis. If I am walking down a city street in the US, my reaction to a group of blacks in military uniforms, and to a group of blacks in gang-banger garb will be quite different. I think it is so for most people; you learn from experience. Religion is something different - I tend to think the radical elements of most major faiths are mental cases, and should be viewed as such.

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Although I am not certain I would term it 'racist' in all cases, I think that we are all prejudiced to one degree or another, mostly based on our life experiences. I have never lived in, or visited, Africa, thus have no strong feelings about Africans one way or the other. I have lived in Saudi, and loathe them. I lived for seven years in Southwest Asia, and don't have very positive feelings for Indians, Bangladeshis, or Pakistanis. If I am walking down a city street in the US, my reaction to a group of blacks in military uniforms, and to a group of blacks in gang-banger garb will be quite different. I think it is so for most people; you learn from experience. Religion is something different - I tend to think the radical elements of most major faiths are mental cases, and should be viewed as such.

A good and fair answer. Thank you.

Dave B

**Mid** · 26-05-2013, 07:22 PM

good OP and hopefully a catalyst for some valid discussion .

I suggest we begin with a agreeable definition of racism .

rac·ism

/ˈrāˌsizəm/

Noun

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...
Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

Linky

with raises an immediate problem in that I'm racist according to point #1

and not according to point #2 ......

**Albert Shagnastier** · 26-05-2013, 07:40 PM

Racism is a weak and ignorant reaction in my opinion.

Having said that, stereotyping people is only logical.

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Racism is a weak and ignorant reaction in my opinion.

Having said that, stereotyping people is only logical.

I'm none the wiser why you would say that Albert, and then why you would contradict yourself apparently. Reasons behind your thinking would be great please.

tks

Dave B

**terry57** · 26-05-2013, 08:14 PM

Interesting OP,

All I would like to add is that you sound perfectly normal and your musings are sound.

Going on your OP we are all Racist in one way or another.

So true, the difference being is that many don't like to express there inner Racism and would never say they don't like a particular race whatever that race might be.

**terry57** · 26-05-2013, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Racism is a weak and ignorant reaction in my opinion.

Having said that, stereotyping people is only logical.

If you stereotype people its the same as Racism.

Two different words containing the same meaning but misinterpreted differently depending on ones thought processes.

**DrAndy** · 26-05-2013, 08:20 PM

I hate all Scots because they are mean, play the bagpipes and wear skirts

I especially dislike anyone from Aberdeen because they smell funny

as for Egyptians, they are great people and very kind, they helped me a lot when I had some probelms there

I have never been helped by anyone from Aberdeen

**sabang** · 26-05-2013, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by piwanoi

a member of a religious group walks into a crowed market and detonates 10kgs of semtex strapped to his chest ,killing not only himself but 57 innocent people and wounding 97 others ,would you say that the perpetrator was a white Jehovah,s witness from Cambridge? , A white Mormon from salt lake city in Utah? , a White Co Of E from Hull in Yorkshire? or an Afghan muslim from Kabul in Afghanistan ?

That would depend on when you asked the question, to whom, and where. If you had asked a while fellow in late world war two, he would have likely answered a Jap. Now, he would likely answer a Moslem. If you had asked an Indian on the late 1980's, he would likely answer a Tamil.

To counter the superior numbers of the Chola empire's army in the 11th century AD, suicide squads were raised by the Indian Chera rulers. This helped the Cheras to resist Chola invasion and maintain the independence of their kingdom from the time of Kulothunga Chola I. These warriors were known as the "chavers".[7] Later, these suicide squads rendered service as police, volunteer troop and fighting squads in the region. Now their primary duty was to assist local rulers in battles and skirmishes. The rulers of the state of Valluvanad are known to have deployed a number of suicide squads against the ruler of Calicut.
In the late 17th century Qing official Yu Yonghe recorded that injured Dutch soldiers fighting against Koxinga's forces for control of Taiwan in 1661 would use gunpowder to blow up both themselves and their opponents rather than be taken prisoner.[8] However, the Chinese observer may have confused such suicidal tactics with the standard Dutch military practice of undermining and blowing up positions recently overrun by the enemy which almost cost Koxinga his life during the siege.[9]
During the Belgian Revolution, on February 5, 1831, Dutch Lieutenant Jan van Speijk detonated his own ship in the harbour of Antwerp to prevent its capture by the Belgians.
Another example was the Prussian soldier Karl Klinke on 18 April 1864 at the Battle of Dybbøl, who died blowing a hole in a Danish fortification.
In the 18th century, John Paul Jones wrote about Ottoman sailors setting their own ships on fire and ramming the ships of their enemies, while refusing to leave their vessels, although they knew this meant certain death for them.
Modern suicide bombing as a political tool can be traced back to the assassination of Tsar Alexander II of Russia in 1881. Alexander fell victim to a Nihilist plot. While driving on one of the central streets of Saint Petersburg, near the Winter Palace, he was mortally wounded by the explosion of hand-made grenades and died a few hours afterwards. The Tsar was killed by a member of Narodnaya Volya, Ignacy Hryniewiecki, who died while intentionally exploding the bomb during the attack.
Andrew Kehoe detonated explosives in his car to end the Bath School disaster.
Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff intended to assassinate Adolf Hitler by suicide bomb in 1943, but was unable to complete the attack.[10]
During the Battle for Berlin the Luftwaffe flew Selbstopfereinsatz against Soviet bridges over the Oder River. These missions were flown by pilots of the Leonidas Squadron under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Heiner Lange. From 17 April until 20 April 1945, using any aircraft that were available, the Luftwaffe claimed that the squadron destroyed 17 bridges. However the military historian Antony Beevor when writing about the incident thinks that this was exaggerated and that only the railway bridge at Küstrin was definitely destroyed. He comments that "thirty-five pilots and aircraft was a high price to pay for such a limited and temporary success". The missions were called off when the Soviet ground forces reached the vicinity of the squadron's airbase at Jüterbog.[11]
Following World War II, Viet Minh "death volunteers" fought against the French Colonial Forces by using a long stick-like explosive to destroy French tanks.
An Arab Christian military officer from Syria, Jules Jammal, used a suicide bomb attack to bring down a French ship during the Suez Crisis in 1956.[12][dubious – discuss]
The Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) used proxy suicide bombers in a series of attacks in 1990s. These consisted of civilian employees of the British army or other government organisations being captured and forced to drive explosive-laden vehicles into army checkpoints or government establishments. In the most lethal incident, five British soldiers and a civilian employee of the British military were killed when the employee (a cook) was forced to drive a 1,000lb bomb into a checkpoint in Derry. The IRA quickly ceased using the practice as many of their supporters were outraged over the use of such tactics.

Suicide attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm a bit bemused really at the inordinate amount of attention paid to suicide bombing- I mean, if that 10kg of semtex where in a bag loaded with shrapnel, it would cause a lot more death & destruction than strapped to a torso, which absorbs a good deal of the blast. I suppose it is the sheer fanaticism involved- but the victims of suicide bombings are a fraction of those killed by IED's in general. Not to mention military bombing, mining etc. I cannot think of any examples of suicide bombings carried out on behalf of superior military forces- it is generally the preserve of those fighting much greater conventional military strength.

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I hate all Scots because they are mean, play the bagpipes and wear skirts

I especially dislike anyone from Aberdeen because they smell funny

as for Egyptians, they are great people and very kind, they helped me a lot when I had some probelms there

I have never been helped by anyone from Aberdeen

ha ha ha ha i liked that. Methinks you might have problems wherever you go Doc.
Now, lie down, get comfy and tell me your myriad of problems and see if uncle Dave here can sort something out.

There. Now don't ever say again that the offer of help was never extended to you by an Aberdonian.

Dave B

**terry57** · 26-05-2013, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I hate all Scots because they are mean, play the bagpipes and wear skirts

I especially dislike anyone from Aberdeen because they smell funny

as for Egyptians, they are great people and very kind, they helped me a lot when I had some problems there

I have never been helped by anyone from Aberdeen

This is a case of stereotyping but in some peoples minds they would say its Racism.

In my mind its neither, its only Doc's personal opinion, others might totally disagree with him.

Does not matter, he is entitled to his opinion the same as the OP is expressing his personal opinion.

Its called Democracy and freedom of Speech.

**blue** · 26-05-2013, 08:28 PM

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities , myself I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.
But while I think this race has the right to defend it's self from other races invading our land and lowering us to thier level.
I disagree with the OP that being better gives us a right to invade others, that's fascism, called social darwinism - and to be avoided ,even if it means the conquered peoples are better off eg Africans under the British Empire.

**Necron99** · 26-05-2013, 08:32 PM

At certain levels racism is justified.
If you wanted to build a swim team from scratch you could pretty much restrict it to whitey.
Attraction, I think abo's are throwback ugly and no amount of tolerance or kumbayah singing is going to change that.
To not like or tolerate someone purely on their race is stupidly limiting so don't count myself racist on that count. Race itself doesn't define whether I find someone agreeable.
I don't however think there is anything wrong per see with being culturalist. There are certain cultures and belief systems that are antithetical to my core beliefs. I could not, for instance find myself being friends or wanting to engage with a creationist, or a hard line Muslim, or someone from a culture that didnt wash, or treated women as chattels, the list is extensive. People who spit on the floor, or wipe their arse with their hand and eschew plumbing...

**taxexile** · 26-05-2013, 08:35 PM

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...

i think all thais are wonderful, helpful, generous and honest.

am i a racist?

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by blue

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities , myself I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.
But while I think this race has the right to defend it's self from other races invading our land and lowering us to thier level.
I disagree with the OP that being better gives us a right to invade others, that's fascism, called social darwinism - and to be avoided ,even if it means the conquered peoples are better off eg Africans under the British Empire.

I like your post very much.
However, i do believe in 'Social Darwinism'. I believe it's humanities best way forward.

Dave B

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by taxexile

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...

i think all thais are wonderful, helpful, generous and honest.

am i a racist?

Technically, according to the excerpt from the initial quote, then yes you are. However, i believe the quote goes on to explain further its meaning.

So really, then, if you think all Thais are wonderful, generous and honest, then you are not a racist, you simply need to up your medication. lol

Dave B

**Aberlour** · 26-05-2013, 08:51 PM

Racism defies all logic, and everybody by default should be trying to have logical thought processes when making every decision and forging every opinion.

If there are one million people of a specific race and 999, 999 of them are bad people and one of them is a decent, honest, stand up member of society, then it defies logic to judge one of those people when you meet them, if you don't know whether they are one of the 999, 999 or that one decent individual. That is a fact according to logic.

You can enter the meeting with an understanding of probability, and know that the chances are that it probably will be one of the majority, but until you are given further information that confirms this, you are being illogical and unintelligent to have already reached your conclusion.

This is a true story. Yesterday I met an african wonan and her young daughter. The kid was adorable, well spoken and polite. The woman was polite, decent and pays her own way in society and is doing a fantastic job raising her daughter.

Later that day I had a run in with a group of England's finest, walking in the middle of the road, drinking their special brew with bull terriers running along side, off leads. These people decided they wanted to play chicken with me and I'm very good at the game chicken.

I would like to hear logical and rational reasons, why the people who are happy admitting to being racists, would rather have one of those low life junkie thieving pieces of shit, living next door to them instead of the black woman and her daughter?

**Davis Knowlton** · 26-05-2013, 08:57 PM

For me, it's pretty much all shaped by experience. In Asia, my exposure to North Asians (Chinese, Korean and Japanese) has been much more limited than my exposure to South Asians. I find Chinese to be rude and pushy, Koreans to be thoroughly obnoxious, and Japanese to just be flat out weird. But, I have only done extended visits to those countries. I have lived/worked in Southeast Asia for almost 25 years. I generally like Thais, Cambodians, Lao and Filipinos. I generally find the females to be much more useful than the males. I doubt that I will ever see Vietnamese as anything other than pop-up targets.

**Albert Shagnastier** · 26-05-2013, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by rovingdave

I'm none the wiser why you would say that Albert, and then why you would contradict yourself apparently. Reasons behind your thinking would be great please.

Originally Posted by terry57

If you stereotype people its the same as Racism. Two different words containing the same meaning but misinterpreted differently depending on ones thought processes.

Ok guys, just my own interpretations, but for me racism has a negative conatation. If you're a racist you look down on other races for no logical reason.

Stereotyping for me is saying
"French people love stinky cheese"
"Germans make exceptional cars"
"Italians make exceptional guns"
"Indians tend to be above average at computer programming and mathematics"
"Thai's are very laid back people"

**sabang** · 26-05-2013, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by blue

I'm racist , I see race and think different races have different qualities

That is factual, not racist. A nature/ nurture debate applies though- to what extent are these differences genetic, and to what extent a result of culture and environment, compounded over many generations. It's PC/ libbie to say it's all about culture & environment, but there are easily identifiable genetic differences too.

Several on the pink fringes think that it is racist of me to point out that you will see many more Jews playing in a chess championship than Ethiopians- and if you do see an Ethiopian there, he's prolly an Ethiopian Jew. But it isn't- it's only racist if you see one set of attributes as necessarily better than another, because it all depends on situation. If one had to jog 30km through arid country for a big mac or a woman, there would be very few Jews left in the race.

Originally Posted by blue

I like the European race as it's the most intelligent , beautiful, creative, artistic etc.

Zing. Well it's fine to have an opinion/ value judgement, but it is sublime to be aware that this is irrevocably culturally biased. It's no different in many other cultures.

**rovingdave** · 26-05-2013, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Aberlour

You can enter the meeting with an understanding of probability, and know that the chances are that it probably will be one of the majority, but until you are given further information that confirms this, you are being illogical and unintelligent to have already reached your conclusion.

Using your analogy, i used to enter the meeting with an open mind and readily agreeable to give each and every one of those in the group the benifit of the doubt. Experience has taught me otherwise however, and it does actually sadden me.

Of course their are plenty of people that defy the sterotype, i'd be a stupid fool not to know this. But i have found that majority rules and i have negative feelings about someone i meet until THEY can prove to me otherwise, not the other way about.

Now, i've said i believe in Social Darwinism'. Now this belief i have doesn't just end with peoples and nations. I would go a step further and include these 'Englands Finest' that you mention. Again, if i was presented with a group of these chavs, these mindless thugs i would form an instant opinion. YOU would and have already formed that opinion in your post. What if a couple of those lads were actually nice boys? Welcome to racism. Shall i send you an application form?

Sorry, that was flippant, but i mean you to take in my meaning. You stereotyped those lads just as i would have done. Stereotyping/racism? Explain the difference

Dave B

**Looper** · 26-05-2013, 09:20 PM

The whole concept of prejudice is a bit suspect. Part of your intelligence as a human being is making judgements based on past experience and knowledge acquired from your general life experiance. When that judgement involves encountering a fellow human being of a different ethnic origin then your expectations about that person will naturally and rightly be coloured by this knowledge.

Same same the supposed injustice of 'racial stereotyping'. It is not an injustice. The perceived unacceptability of the practise is just irrational political correctness, which is the real disease of modern conciousness.

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