Thread: Defence Ministry will not release evidence related to Abhisit's conscription

I've asked this before: How many of the so called Hi-So class have avoided conscription? Thaksin's son doesn't seem to have served any time in the army???
Witch-hunt!!

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

that he just wanted the former prime minister to show responsibility

Crikey, if all Thai parliamentarians displayed responsibility by resigning there would be an empty house

Originally Posted by noelbino

I've asked this before: How many of the so called Hi-So class have avoided conscription? Thaksin's son doesn't seem to have served any time in the army???
Witch-hunt!!

not a witch hunt, just dirty Thai politics.

In addition, this charge is not just about not serving....

Then there is the dem/pad coalition accusing this government of being extremely corrupt. This strikes back at that charge.

Now then, I had to laugh at the PTP calling for him to resign ...

I mean isn't that Dem MP still serving who killed a man? I don't recall him resigning, but I could be wrong...

Sukampol welcomes court showdown with opposition leader - The Nation

Sukampol welcomes court showdown with opposition leader

Panya Thiosangwan,
Atapoom Ongkulna,
Olan Lertrattanadamrongkul
The Nation November 10, 2012 1:00 am


Minister defends decision to retroactively dismiss Abhisit from military; says it was based on false documents

Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday shrugged off Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's threat to sue him in the Central Administrative Court over a ministry committee's decision to strip Abhisit of the rank and salary given to him when he worked as military lecturer.

Sukampol said he was ready to explain his decision to endorse the ministry's decision to the court.

"It's good that Abhisit will file a suit with the Administrative Court," Sukampol said.

Abhisit said yesterday that his legal team was drafting a lawsuit to be sent to the Administrative Court because he regarded the decision to strip him of his rank as politically motivated.

Abhisit said the ministry committee had planned from the beginning to penalise him with the goal of undermining the Opposition's planned censure debate against the government.

"I've sent Sukampol a letter opposing the decision; it should reach him today. But he has signed an order to penalise me, so I will have to seek help from the Administrative Court," Abhisit said.

The committee set up by Sukampol concluded that Abhisit used falsified documents to apply for the position as a military lecturer, so it recommended stripping him of his military rank and salary retroactively.

The Defence Ministry would take action to dismiss Abhisit from military service retroactively, effective June 2, 1988, Sukampol said.

The minister said he would gradually issue the necessary orders to strip Abhisit of his rank, adding that the investigative panel had yet to calculate how much Abhisit would have to return to the state.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said Abhisit should take responsibility for the issue and show the appropriate spirit by resigning as an MP right away, now that the committee had found that he had committed an offence.

Meanwhile, Opposition chief whip Jurin Laksanawisit said yesterday the Opposition had submitted a motion of impeachment against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and no-confidence debate motions targeting three individual ministers to House Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont.

Supported by 155 Democrat MPs and two MPs from the Rak Thailand Party, the Opposition proposes impeachment of Yingluck on grounds of malfeasance. It proposes that Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva replace Yingluck. The Opposition also proposed a censure debate against three of her Cabinet members. They are Sukampol, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung and Deputy Interior Minister Chatt Kuldiloke, Jurin said.

Jurin said 10-20 speakers had prepared information to scrutinise the PM and the ministers but would not reveal the speakers' names for the moment.

He said the reason Commerce Minister Boonsong Teriyapirom was not among the censure targets was that there was insufficient information to scrutinise him separately.

Asked what would happen if Yingluck asked Boonsong to clarify the government's rice-pledging scheme on her behalf, Jurin said that in principle, Yingluck should clarify the issue by herself.

Jurin said the Opposition was confident of providing checks and balances on the government.

However, it was up to the people to decide whether they would continue to place trust in the government, he said.

Cases of corruption or malfeasance raised in the debate will not die in Parliament if the Opposition loses the no-confidence votes, as they would be submitted to the National Anti-Corruption Commission and the impeachment process would continue, Jurin said.

If the NACC decides to indict someone, the case would be brought to the Senate, where a three-fifths vote would be needed for impeachment. The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders would handle related criminal cases.

The Constitution requires that cases against the premier be submitted to the NACC if key points in the censure debate against the leader involve corruption or malfeasance.

Originally Posted by noelbino

I've asked this before: How many of the so called Hi-So class have avoided conscription? Thaksin's son doesn't seem to have served any time in the army???
Witch-hunt!!

None of the hi-so want to touch that as it would implicate every hi-so family in the country. When you think about it, this was a masterful stroke. No one can retaliate can they?

Court may be asked to rule on Abhisit | Bangkok Post: news

Court may be asked to rule on Abhisit

• Published: 11/11/2012 at 01:06 PM
• Online news: Politics

Pheu Thai members will be asked to approve a petition for the Constitution Court to examine and rule on whether former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is qualified to be an MP after he was stripped of his military rank and dismissed from military service retroactively for draft-dodging, Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said on Sunday.

Mr Prompong said a proposal would be made at a meeting of the Pheu Thai Party tomorrow for MPs to sign in support of the petition.

Apart from the petition to the Constitution Court, Pheu Thai will ask the Election Commission to review whether Mr Abhisit was qualified to be the opposition leader and to be nominated for the post of prime minister in the no-confidence motion filed against the government Saturday.

Mr Abhisit's plan to file a petition with the Administrative Court after being dismissed from military service was intended only to buy time because he no longer had the right to report to parliament as an MP.

Mr Prompong said Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and three other cabinet ministers named in the no-confidence motion were confident they would be able to reply to questions raised by the opposition during the censure debate.

No MPs would be assigned to disrupt the opposition's debate or protect the prime minister and the three other ministers while being grilled, the spokesman said.


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More action planned against Abhisit | Bangkok Post: news

More action planned against Abhisit

• Published: 11/11/2012 at 01:37 PM
• Online news: Politics

A petition will be filed Monday asking the Election Commission to seek a Constitution Court ruling on whether Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has lost his MP status after being retroactively dismissed from the military.


Abhisit Vejjajiva (File Photo)

Former senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattana said on Sunday the EC would be asked to forward a request to the Constitution Court to make the ruling.

Mr Ruangkrai said the Defence Ministry's Order No 1163/2555 to retroactively dismiss Mr Abhisit from military service for draft-dodging was effective and clearly confirmed that the dismissal took effect from June 2, 1988.

The dismissal was a form of disciplinlary action. Mr Abhisit was, therefore, not qualified to run for the House of Representatives, he said.

On Mr Abhisit's plan to petition the Administrative Court to overturn the Defence Ministry's order, the former senator said that according to the law that established the Administrative Court and its procedures, the court did not have the jurisdiction to override disciplinary action taken by the military.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

the honorable exit for this conflict would be to kill Thaksin,

Where can we buy the t-shirts?

Abhisit files suit with Administrative Court against Sukampol's order
November 12, 2012

Opposition Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva Monday had his lawyer file a suit with the Central Administrative Court accusing Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat of illegally issued an order to dismiss him as a military reserve who earns state salary and pension and strip of his military rank and salary.

Sukampol endorsed the decision to dismiss Abhisit on the grounds that he used falsified documents to apply for the position as a military lecturer.

The suit filed by Abhisit said the Defence Ministry has no authority to dismiss a military official who had decommissioned as Abhiit has quit his military post 23 years ago.

nationmultimedia.com

Abhisit petitions Admin Court
12/11/2012

Opposition and Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has submitted a petition to the Administrative Court, asking it to rule whether the Defence Ministry's order to retroactively dismiss him from military service and strip him of his rank is against the law.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanont Intarakomalyasut said Mr Abhisit's case was filed with the Administrative Court by his lawyer on Monday.


Abhisit Vejjajiva
(Photo by Chanat Katanyu)

Mr Abhisit has asked the court to rule whether the Defence Ministry can legally retroactively dismiss him and strip him of his military rank since he left the military service a long time ago.

The court was also asked to rule whether the former prime minister had breached military discipline, as mentioned in the Defence Ministry's order.

Mr Chavanont said Mr Abhisit had evidence to confirm that he had never falsified or used fake documents to apply for a teaching job at the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy -- the job that exempted him from military conscription in 1987.

Bundhit Siriphan, Mr Abhisit's lawyer, said that now the petition was filed with the court the Defence Ministry's order would not affect the censure debate against the government scheduled for Nov 25-26.

Mr Bundhit said the Defence Ministry's order was simply persecution which could lead to Mr Abhisit being disqualified as an MP.

Meanhwile, former senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattana petitioned the Election Commission to seek a Consitution Court ruling that Mr Abhisit was still qualified to serve as an MP after the Defence Ministry retroactively dismissed him from military service.

Mr Ruangkrai said that as a result of the dismissal order, Mr Abhisit might have been disqualified as an MP under Sections 102 (6) and 106 (5) of the constitution.

On Mr Abhisit's petition to the Administrative Court against the Defence Ministry's order, the former senator said he believed the court did not have the jurisdiction to consider a matter concerning military disciplinary action.

bangkokpost.com

The immediate problem with Abhisit's court case seems to be that he has conceded, or at least is not challenging, the allegation that he was a draft dodger who then used fraudulent documents to obtain his position as a military lecturer. This before the population of Thailand, aka voters. He is merely legally questioning the Jurisdiction of the Defence Minister to strip him of his allegedly corruptly obtained military titles and perquisites.

It's just part of the tit-for-tat. The amart-sakdina and their Dem facilitators push forward with general no-teeth's non-existent demos, so the PTP attack Abhisit for his non-existent military credentials. Fair is fair I guess.

Abhisit smear campaign is unnecessary, expert says | Bangkok Post: news

Abhisit smear campaign is unnecessary, expert says

• Published: 13/11/2012 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Government attempts to discredit the opposition ahead of next week's censure debate will have little effect, a political analyst has said.

Somchai Srisutthiyakorn, a political scientist at Sripatum University, said the government had embarked on a concerted smear campaign against the Democrat Party ahead of the no-confidence debate on Nov 25-27.

But he warned the campaign is misguided, will not work, and is diverting the government's attention away from more serious issues.

Mr Somchai was referring primarily to a Defence Ministry panel decision last week which recommended Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva be stripped of his military rank and have the salary he earned during his time as a lecturer at Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy recalled.

A former senator now plans to ask the Election Commission (EC) to seek a Constitution Court ruling on whether Mr Abhisit should lose his MP status as a result of being stripped of his rank.

Mr Somchai said the moves are widely viewed as attempts to block the opposition leader from participating in the censure debate by casting doubt on his eligibility as an MP.

But he said the EC would not rush to seek the ruling on Mr Abhisit's MP status. If the ruling came too fast, it would call the EC's credibility into doubt, Mr Somchai said. The agency could be viewed as bowing to pressure from the government.

He said the government is making rash moves to corner the opposition when there are bigger issues at hand.

Even if strong evidence was presented against the government during the censure debate, he said the opposition would still not be able to unseat the government, which commands the overwhelming majority in the House of Representatives.

"What the government should really be worried about is the rally by the Pitak Siam group which will be held one day ahead of the debate [on Nov 24]. The government must find ways to deal with the protest properly," Mr Somchai said.

Mr Abhisit told the Bangkok Post he was unfazed by the government's attempts to discredit him. He was confident he would be able to perform his job as opposition leader during the debate.

Mr Abhisit said he had sent his lawyer to ask the Administrative Court yesterday to consider if the rank-stripping order violates legal or Defence Ministry regulations. He said he will also file a suit with the Criminal Court asking it to rule on whether the defence panel ruling constitutes an act of malfeasance in violation of Section 157 of the Criminal Code.

"What is happening shows which party is more democratically minded," he said. "The government is only thinking of how to block efforts to hold it to account."

The defence panel ruled last Tuesday that Mr Abhisit had fraudulently applied for and obtained a job as a lecturer at Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy _ a position that allowed him to be exempted from conscription in 1987.


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Pongthep: Abhisit not qualified as MP | Bangkok Post: breakingnews

Pongthep: Abhisit not qualified as MP

• Published: 13/11/2012 at 12:30 PM
• Online news:

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva is not qualified to run for the House of Representatives because he has been dismissed from the military service and stripped off a military rank, Deputy Prime Minister Pongthep Thepkanchana said on Tuesday.

Mr Pongthep said he voiced this opinion as a member of the Pheu Thai Party's legal team.

Section 102 (6) of the constitution regarding qualifications of MPs prohibits a person who has been sacked from the government service from contesting an election for the House of Representatives. Mr Abhisit was in this category, Mr Pongthep said.

On Mr Abhisit's peition for the Administrative Court to revoke the Defence Ministry's order dismissing him from the military service, saying it was illegal, Mr Pongthep said the Democrat Party leader could not do this.

According to the law on the establishment of the Administrative Court, the court does not have the jurisdiction to consider a case involving a military disciplinary action, he added.

Mr Pongthep said the Pheu Thai Party had not yet considered whether to ask the Election Commission or the Constitution Court to rule on Mr Abhisit's qualifications.

Thavorn: Abhisit still qualified | Bangkok Post: breakingnews

Thavorn: Abhisit still qualified

• Published: 13/11/2012 at 01:00 PM
• Online news:

A leading member of the Democrat Party's legal team believes Abhisit Vejjajiva is still qualified to be an MP even though he has been stripped of his military rank.

Thavorn Senneam, a Songkhla MP, said the process of stripping Mr Abhisit's rank as ordered by Defence Minister Sukumpol Suwanatat had not yet been completed. Therefore, the Democrat Party leader was still qualified.

Moreover, Mr Abhisit had the right to ask the Administrative Court to revoke the order even though it concerned military disciplinary action.

The Administrative Court did not have the jurisdiction to consider a case concerning disciplinary action against an officer who was still in the military service. Since Mr Abhisit was no longer in the service, so this could not be applied in his case, Mr Thavorn said.

The matter would still have to go through a long legal battle, both in the Election Commission and the Constitution Court, which would make a final ruling.

Mr Thavorn said he was confident Mr Abhisit was still qualified and his being nominated for the post of prime minister in the censure motion would not be affected.

"The Democrat Party is gathering names of MPs and drafting a petition for the removal of ACM Sukumpol for having illegally issued the order," he added.

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

that he just wanted the former prime minister to show responsibility

Crikey, if all Thai parliamentarians displayed responsibility by resigning there would be an empty house

Spot on Mr Lick ,for a Thai politician to accept responsibility and resign means massive "loss of face" and a fate worse than death , The Phu Thai are total Hypocrites personified, they are trying to make a big deal of this and "scraping the barrel" when many of their own MP'S spend tens of Millions buying votes ,"let him who is without sin cast the first stone"!

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Government attempts to discredit the opposition ahead of next week's censure debate will have little effect, a political analyst has said.

Somchai Srisutthiyakorn, a political scientist at Sripatum University, said the government had embarked on a concerted smear campaign against the Democrat Party ahead of the no-confidence debate on Nov 25-27.

Who is Somchai Sri-what-ever-chinky-sakdina-given-name, and WTF is "Sriputum University"? They might as well have asked General No-Teeth for his "analysis"..

Honestly, grasping for anyone to speak ill of PTP just to keep a crap non-story alive until 24 November ...really.

Motion to impeach Sukampol over Abhisit army row - The Nation

Motion to impeach Sukampol over Abhisit army row

November 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Sukumpol//Photo : Sakol Sandhiratne

The Democrat Party on Friday filed an impeachment motion against Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat, alleging that he abused his authority in stripping the Democrat leader of his Army rank.

The motion was signed by 153 Democrat MPs and was submitted by partylist MP Pussadee Tamthai to Senate Speaker Nikhom Waiyaratphanich.

Sukampol has signed an order to endorse a decision of a Defence Ministry panel to strip Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva of his Army sub lieutenant rank on allegations that he used fake documents to apply for a job as a military lecturer.

The impeachment motion alleged that Sukampol had committed malfeasance by ordering the rank revocation against Abhisit in violation of the Military Disciplinary Act of 1933. The motion said the act did not allow the defence minister to strip a retired military officer of his or her rank and the Council of State has earlier interpreted that act and announced that the Defence Ministry could not retroactively fire retired military officers.

The motion also alleged that Sukampol intended to abuse his authority to prevent the Democrat leader from carrying out his duty as the opposition leader with the order. The motion noted that Sukampol told the Pheu Thai meeting and Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra that he would take action against Abhisit.

MCOT report here, basically saying the same stuff.

Democrats put defence minister in hot seat | MCOT.net

So did he abuse his authority or not? It will be interesting to see if he did....

I've got zero sympathy for Abhisit or his party. They're getting beat at their own game, yet again. Som nom na, motherfucker.

If the Democrat party had any collective political brainpower (they don't), they would find a face saving way to get rid of Mark as leader. The Thai people will never majority vote for the Dems while he remains in titular charge. They should replace him with another wholesome puppet, heck maybe even bring back Chuan Leekpai- he doesn't look so bad after all these years

Originally Posted by sabang

If the Democrat party had any collective political brainpower (they don't), they would find a face saving way to get rid of Mark as leader. The Thai people will never majority vote for the Dems while he remains in titular charge. They should replace him with another wholesome puppet, heck maybe even bring back Chuan Leekpai- he doesn't look so bad after all these years

the democrats have proven their strategic political savoir faire by losing every election for the last 20 years. The fact that they exist as a party at all is remarkable. There must be something in the Thai water that protects them. It's the only possible explanation.
B)

Originally Posted by sabang

If the Democrat party had any collective political brainpower (they don't), they would find a face saving way to get rid of Mark as leader. The Thai people will never majority vote for the Dems while he remains in titular charge. They should replace him with another wholesome puppet, heck maybe even bring back Chuan Leekpai- he doesn't look so bad after all these years

So to be a senior member here, means you have to post the drivel that you do?

Originally Posted by sabang

Same old same old.

1- Senior cop busts a corrupt effort to get a plutocrat (Red Bull heir) off the hook for running over and killing a cop in a hit n run accident. Said plutocrat is later found to have alcohol and cocaine in his system. The senior cop involved in the effort to get him off the hook is suspended, pending disciplinary proceedings.
Democrat response- The honest cop has a picture of Thaksin on his wall! sack him!!!

2- ex-PM (not really) and leader of the Democrats, Abhisit, is found to be a draft dodger, and obtained his job as a military lecturer using forged documents. The Defence Minister strips him of his military title, and suspends his perq's.
Democrat response- Impeach the Defence Minister!!!


I mean, really- and this is just in the last six weeks or so. And you guys accuse Thaksin of being corrupt. The Democrat party is the HQ of corrupt plutocrats. They do not even have the subtlety to disguise it, just the asinine Bangkok 'press' to cheerlead their twisted agenda. I would remind you, the Abhisit administration was the most corrupt since Banharn (perhaps even more so)- even the leader of the PAD pointed this out. They are not fit to run a pissup in a brewery, never mind a nation.

So Mr. World citizen, off you go to The NACC with all your evidence of the corrupt Dems and do your deed for the good of Thailand.
While you are there remind them that a former prime minister managed to do a multi BILLION DOLLAR deal to sell a Thai asset to a foriegn country in 5 days after legitation was changed to permit such a sale.

Originally Posted by noelbino

So to be a senior member here, means you have to post the drivel that you do?

No, but to forever remain a junior member here all you have to do is continue to post the meaningless drivel that you do.

Originally Posted by noelbino

a former prime minister managed to do a multi BILLION DOLLAR deal to sell a Thai asset to a foriegn country in 5 days after legitation was changed to permit such a sale.

Oh, shock horror, a Thai entrepreneur sold a Thai company to a foreign company, and made lotsa money- how can we ever forgive that as citizens of the free world. Anyway, yawwn, Thaksin again. and again. etc, etc.... zzzzzzzzzzz This on a thread about Abhisits fraud, and the Defence Ministers response.

Oh, but I think I get it. You don't like Thaksin, so therefore Abhisit should not be held accountable in any way for his cheating. And of course, the Defence Minister should be impeached for daring to hold Abhisit accountable for his fraud, in a modern world that contains that single word "Thaksin". Righto, yeh, that makes a lot of sense mr forever junior poster.