Thread: Amnesty for Former TRT Executives?

Originally Posted by Rocksteady

Here we go again!

No, the mechanism of Coup d'Etat has been rightly been slapped down into the dungeon where it belongs.

Well it's gonna be interesting anyway.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Originally Posted by longway

But what you actually said was Vote buying is not a big problem, because ...umm... its not a big problem.

Actually, no... what I said was:

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Studies have been done that show pretty clearly that "vote-buying", whatever you imagine that to actually mean as a form of behavior, does not necessarily stop people from voting their opinions. That's one of the reasons I don't see it as a major problem at this time. It's also fairly clear that many of the forms that corruption takes in Thailand are not seen by a majority of Thais to be such terrible things. Anyone who can say with a straight face that the recent election does not represent the political preference of the majority of Thais who voted in it is simply deluded.

And that won't change no matter how many times you try to make out that I said something as stupid and simplistic as you tend to...

When we started this little to do I based my remark to you on a recollection of a post you made 1000 posts ago, so perhaps you can forgive me for encapsulating what you said in one sentence. What you said struck me as moronically stupid then as it does now. As I said you are entitled to think that I over simplified your stance to the extent that it misrepresents you and I am entitled to sit back and laugh at you. Lets put it in terms even you might begin to understand.

This is a emoticon represents someone who thinks vote buying is ok because evryone does it.




and this one represents some who thinks vote buying is not a big problem or, as you like to put it:

Studies have been done that show pretty clearly that "vote-buying", whatever you imagine that to actually mean as a form of behavior, does not necessarily stop people from voting their opinions. That's one of the reasons I don't see it as a major problem at this time. It's also fairly clear that many of the forms that corruption takes in Thailand are not seen by a majority of Thais to be such terrible things. Anyone who can say with a straight face that the recent election does not represent the political preference of the majority of Thais who voted in it is simply deluded.

Originally Posted by longway

perhaps you can forgive me for encapsulating what you said in one sentence

But you didn't "encapsulate" what I said. You altered it to fit your simplistic worldview and your rhetorical vacuity.

But do keep posting.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by Rocksteady

Here we go again!

No, the mechanism of Coup d'Etat has been rightly been slapped down into the dungeon where it belongs.

clueless as usual

It will be rather interesting, doubtless the deal between clique elites behind this government and the one with the army have agreed a no reprisals as part of the deal to bring taksin home. I just don't think that once he's back he will be able to resist temptation, and that will put us firmly into interesting times

Reds plan across border Thaksin celebrations, says Jatuporn - The Nation

Reds plan across border Thaksin celebrations, says Jatuporn

The Nation March 26, 2012 1:00 am

Thousands of red shirts will celebrate Songkran with former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in Laos and Cambodia, Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan said yesterday.

"Thaksin is not coming back to Thailand at this time but will stay close in order to allay the feelings of those who miss him," he said.

Jatuporn said Thaksin will be in Vientiane on April 12-to-13 to meet his red supporters from Udon Thani and Nong Khai.

Thaksin's next stop is Siem Reap on April 14-to-15, he said, revealing he will lead the red shirts to join Thaksin in a grand celebration.

Cambodia Prime Minister Hun Sen might take part in the event, he said. At present, a Cambodian aide was looking for a suitable venue to welcome tens of thousands of red shirts, he added.

Commenting on a recent Thaksin phone-in at Surin, he said he expected Thaksin to come home after receiving a just settlement.

The injustice of the 2006 power seizure was that the Asset Examination Committee made an unprecedented move in targeting only Thaksin.

In regard to the controversial report on reconciliation measures by the King Prajadhipok's Institute, Jatuporn said Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva had gone overboard in his critique of the report.

The report alone could not bring about or derail reconciliation, he said. Fence mending would succeed if all sides agreed to work together, or fail if they worked against one another, he said.

He said from his point of view, the Democrats seemed to always oppose reconciliation because they feared turning out losers in the deal.

"The Democrats keep picking on Thaksin because they have no achievements to boast about," he said.

He went on to remind all sides not to get trapped in the past, saying he was willing to forgive the 2006 coup in order to allow the country to advance.

As coup leader General Sonthi Boonyaratglin was trying to rectify his past mistakes by pushing for reconciliation. Society should give him a chance.

Jatuporn said he disagreed that Chart Thai Pattana MP Sanan Kachornprasart should try to corner Sonthi to reveal coup secrets.

"I don't think there will be additional information about the coup," he said.

He said the opposing sides already had their facts and should move toward forgiveness instead of confrontation which can trigger a civil war.

Over the past five years, the red shirts had waged an anti-coup struggle based on facts presented at each point in time, he said, conceding he wanted to let bygones be bygones rather than arguing about who was the real mastermind of the coup.

In a related development, Abhisit issued his third open letter urging the KPI to withdraw its report.

The House committee on reconciliation was acting suspiciously - as if it planned to misuse the KPI report to draw a lopsided conclusion, Abhisit said.

He said reconciliation would not materialise from a majority vote in Parliament, urging the government to take an active role in mending fences.

Abhisit said he was worried about Thaksin's phone-in message which claimed to be lobbying judges to grant bail for red shirts involved in the political disturbances. Thaksin was speaking as if he could intervene and sway the judiciary, he said.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut said Thaksin had never paid for the defence expenses incurred by the red shirts.

He said the red shirts should see through Thaksin - that he did not really care about their grievances. Thaksin preyed on the red shirts to secure his amnesty and safeguard his wealth, he said.

Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin. Oh and Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin

Speak of one track mind

There was something I was about to say but it is pointless here. I prefer to eat.

Panlop unveils plan for Thaksin return | Bangkok Post: news

Panlop unveils plan for Thaksin return

• Published: 27/03/2012 at 02:31 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Gen Panlop Pinmanee, a security adviser to the prime minister, says he plans to bring former premier Thaksin Shinawatra back to Thailand this year.

Thaksin will return on a private jet and arrive at Suvarnabhumi airport where his supporters will be waiting to welcome him home, Gen Panlop said.

The issue of Thaksin returning to Thailand resurfaced over the weekend after Thaksin told his supporters via a phone-in that he would come back soon in style.

He was responding to claims by Udon Thani red shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana that he would return via the border in Laos after the Songkran festival.

Thaksin denied he intended returning to the country that way, but gave no further details of his plans.

Gen Panlop said he proposed collecting 20,000 signatures to submit an amnesty bill to parliament, as one way to bring Thaksin back if the national reconciliation proposal by the King Prajadhipok's Institute does not result in an amnesty for the exiled politician.

He said the Pheu Thai Party promised an amnesty bill allowing Thaksin to come back, during the election campaign in Buri Ram last year, and the pledge must be fulfilled. Gen Panlop was confident the bill would pass parliament.

He and Thaksin had discussed the amnesty push, and he agreed with the idea. Gen Panlop said he would meet Thaksin in Laos and Cambodia to discuss the matter again.

Thaksin plans trips to the neighbouring countries during the Songkran festival from April 12 to 15.

Parnthep Pourpongpan, spokesman of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said the group would resume street protests to oppose any efforts to bring back Thaksin. If Pheu Thai's move to rewrite the charter and propose an amnesty bill for Thaksin succeed in parliament, unrest will ensue, he said.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Yutthasak Sasiprapa yesterday dismissed as groundless Gen Panlop's claims that some military figures are still plotting to stage another coup.

Gen Yutthasak, who is in charge of security affairs, was referring to a remark by Gen Panlop that some members of the military were still thinking about forming another council for national security, similar to the one that toppled the Thaksin government on Sept 19, 2006, to stage another coup.

He said he did not see any reason why this would happen.

Gen Yutthasak said military commanders had given full cooperation and support to the government and he could not see that changing.

No problems had arisen with the mid-year military reshuffle, or about the armed forces' budget requests.

The government and the military had agreed they would stay in close consultation with each other on important matters such as the insurgency in the South, Gen Yutthasak said.

Asked whether the ongoing attempts to bring Thaksin back to the country could lead to a coup, Gen Yutthasak said the military had not discussed the matter.

Pol Maj-Gen Thawat Boonfueng, the prime minister's acting secretary-general, yesterday denied a report that core members of Class 10 of the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School planned to bring Thaksin home via Chiang Mai airport.

Pol Maj-Gen Thawat, also a former cadet of Class 10 and classmate of Thaksin, said he and other Class 10 members were stunned by Gen Panlop's claim about another coup and their plan to bring Thaksin home via Chiang Mai.

"I can give an assurance that no former members of Class 10, whether in the military or police force, have ever discussed this matter.

"I think Thaksin knows well that in this situation, conflict still exists and reconciliation is still far away.

"I think it's unlikely Thaksin will return to the country this year," Pol Maj-Gen Thawat said.

Rumours abound that Christiano Ronaldo will move to Chelsea and be the lure to also bring Jose Morinhio back with him.

^ Thats Thaksin's fault, undoubtably.

indeed, if only he could shut up and retire and spend his last billions on overseas trips

he put himself into this situation, not the army

Prasong: Chavalit slanting Order 66/23 | Bangkok Post: breakingnews

Prasong: Chavalit distorting Order 66/23

• Published: 27/03/2012 at 06:05 PM
• Online news:

Former Pheu Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh has misrepresented the essence of Prime Minister's Office Order 66/23 to slant it in favour of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Squadron Leader Prasong Soonsiri said on Tuesday.

Sqd Ldr Prasong, a former National Security Council (NSC) chief, said he could say this because he took part in the process of issuing that order in 1980.

Order 66/23 was aimed at granting amnesty to innocent students and people who were democracy-loving and not holding a communist ideology, but the political situation pushed them to join the armed struggle of the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT).


Sqd Ldr Prasong Soonsiri(Photo by Pawat Laopaisarntaksin)

The government at the time considered they were not harmful to national security and wanted them to return to the fold and join national development, he said.

Under Order 66/23, the amnesty did not cover criminals wanted for setting fire on government offices, murdering government authorities, or committing other crimes. These criminals were still subject to legal actions.

Therefore, legal cases filed against Thaksin must continue, to maintain the justice process of the country, Sqd Ldr Prasong said.

Gen Chavalit, in saying that all cases filed against Thaksin must be invalidated, had distorted the essence of Order 66/23.

The former NSC chief said the belief that reconciliation would be achieved by helping a certain group of people off the hook was wrong and would even escalate the existing conflict.

Gen Chavalit on Monday said he had issued an 11-page letter voicing support for the King Prajadhipok's Institute's proposals to grant amnesty to Thaksin and nullify legal cases filed against him by the Assets Scrutiny Committee

He said he would today hold a press conference to give details of his letter. But his close aide came out to say that this had been postponed because Gen Chavalit felt it was not yet the right time for him to do so.

Nice jacket. Extremely old Squadron Leader. Where did they drag him up from?

Go easy on the courts | Bangkok Post: opinion

EDITORIAL

Go easy on the courts

• Published: 27/03/2012 at 02:04 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Two recent and mostly unconnected controversies have sent political ripples towards the justice system, and particularly the courts. Both are provocative, and put pressure and troubles on judges in unnecessary ways.

Former primer minister Thaksin Shinawatra's apparently off-hand remark that he was "talking to judges" about securing bail for detained red shirts was an incredible claim, as it suggests he is exerting influence over the courts system which in a properly functioning democracy he should not possess.

And the decision by prosecutors to hold over charges until next year against 10 prominent personalities for a protest they staged at parliament in 2007 manages to subtly drag the courts into an affair in which they can hardly be held to blame.

Thaksin made his remark last weekend in a morale-boosting talk to about 300 red shirt supporters in the Northeast. Thaksin began by discussing the lengthy periods of pre-trial detention which many red shirts have had to serve since the 2010 clashes. They languish in jail, the courts unwilling to grant them bail, but with no immediate prospect of their charges being heard.

Thaksin urged them to be patient, and then said: "I am talking with judges and everything should be settled. If the government has no money to bail out red shirts, I will use my own money to bail out everyone."

Courts of Justice spokesman Sitthisak Wanachakit responded quickly, insisting bail is handled on a case-by-case basis, and by the judge appointed to a specific case. Bail hearings are in court, and public.

Mr Sitthisak was drawing attention to the flaws in the Thaksin's remarks, which taken at face value suggest he can exercise influence over the courts which goes beyond that allowed ordinary individuals. The courts, understandably, are keen to put to rest such ideas, as they want to be seen as impartial.

Prosecutors involved in the trial of Jon Ungphakorn and 10 other prominent democrats for their protest at parliament have also behaved poorly, and owe the courts an apology should the courts end up shouldering the blame for their own lack of ability to prosecute the case speedily.

Prosecutors at the Office of the Attorney General last week decided they still had no one capable of prosecuting the defendants. Instead of dropping charges as they should, OAG lawyers asked the court to delay the hearing until next year so a reshuffle could be completed at the prosecutors' office.

The prosecutors' decision risks passing the buck to the courts for their own lack of ability to pursue the case in a timely fashion.

Prosecutors are using the courts as a cover their own lack of action, and in that regard have something in common with Thaksin.

The former prime minister might well be frustrated by the courts' reluctance to release more red shirt protesters on bail _ but implying that he has entered some cosy deal with the judges to secure their release will hardly help his cause.

Originally Posted by sabang

Nice jacket. Extremely old Squadron Leader. Where did they drag him up from?

He does look rather like a TSB bank manager doesn't he

as for what he's saying... sounds like taksin fits the bill. he is only paying with left wing politics as a way to get power, he doesn't really believe in any of it at all; and he will continue to be a disruptive influence on the country until he gets what he believes he's entitled too

Originally Posted by sabang

^ Thats Thaksin's fault, undoubtably.

Shhhhhhh....... It had been pointed out we should not really be talking about old square head in a thread about old square head....... I was just doing as I was told until you spoiled it....

60,000 red shirts likely to meet Thaksin
29/03/2012

About 50,000 red shirts from the Northeast will meet former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in Vientiane during the Songkran festival next month.

Red shirt leader Nisit Sinthuphrai said about 50,000 Thaksin supporters are expected to leave for Laos to meet him there as he pays a brief visit to Laos and Cambodia during the festival.

The red shirts would gather at the stadium of the Nong Khai provincial administrative organisation on April 11 and leave for Vientiane the next morning.

Their travels will be broadcast live on the pro-Thaksin Asia Update television station.

Mr Nisit said red shirt co-leader Jatuporn Prompan would make arrangements for another group of red shirts to meet Thaksin in Siem Reap of Cambodia.

Theppanom Namlee, a red shirt leader in Surin province, said red shirts from Yasothon, Buri Ram, Roi Et and Surin provinces would pass the Chong Jom border pass in Kap Choeng district of Surin on April 13 and head for Thaksin's whereabouts.

Mr Theppanom said some 10,000 red shirts are expected to join the trip to meet Thaksin who will be in Siem Reap on April 14 and 15.

Mr Theppanom said MPs of the Pheu Thai Party should travel along.

Thaksin made a phone call to a meeting of his northeastern red shirt supporters last Saturday.

Thaksin, who has been living in Dubai in self-imposed exile since 2008, invited his supporters to meet him either in Siem Reap or in Vientiane during the Songkran festival. He will be in Vientiane on April 12 and 13.

Kwanchai Praipana, the red shirt's leader in Udon Thani province, said he would lead about 1,000 red shirt followers from Udon Thani to meet Thaksin at Phetchampa Hotel in Vientiane on April 12.

Red shirts plan to organise a ceremony to pray for Thaksin's well-being and smooth return to Thailand.

Thaksin's supporters from Udon Thani will return to their home province on the same day.

Mr Kwanchai said he would organise an event on April 7 at which red shirts would launch a drug campaign with police.

He expects Thaksin to phone in to greet his supporters on that day.

bangkokpost.com

Originally Posted by Mid

The 50,000 red shirts would gather at the stadium of the Nong Khai provincial administrative organisation on April 11 and leave for Vientiane the next morning.

All on the same bus presumably

I rather think that is an exaggeration actually.

Originally Posted by mao say dung

Originally Posted by longway

You have the notion that vote-buying - whatever that may mean to you, is something that can be tidied up after Thailand reaches 'democracy', I think that vote buying and the behaviours asscoated with it are one of the core resons why thailand will not ever reach democracy. Its got nothing to do with 'simplifying' your view, it just that your view is fundamentally stupid no matter how matter how to try to 'nuance' it.

Fine. Then why not address what I actually said:

Studies have been done that show pretty clearly that "vote-buying", whatever you imagine that to actually mean as a form of behavior, does not necessarily stop people from voting their opinions. That's one of the reasons I don't see it as a major problem at this time. It's also fairly clear that many of the forms that corruption takes in Thailand are not seen by a majority of Thais to be such terrible things. Anyone who can say with a straight face that the recent election does not represent the political preference of the majority of Thais who voted in it is simply deluded.

To do so, you will need to look at the studies. You will need to address the issue of people voting their opinions, which is all anyone does in any democratic state, regardless of vote buying. How Thais feel about vote buying is obviously not relevant to my point, but you might address that anyway. And finally you should address what was in fact the concluding point in what I said about the recent election.

I look forward to your response to what I actually said. Presumably you will try to say something a little less simplistic than "that's stupid".

But maybe not.

You just dont get it do you?

I have already made clear on a number of occasions why I think vote buying is a major problem. If vote-buying and the insidious practices required to keep it in place are no longer a factor then the choices for the voters will be radically different than they are now. Vote buying means criminals are in and competing for political office. To even get into political office you need you have to break the law, or be willing to associate with those who will do it for you.

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

Originally Posted by Mid

The 50,000 red shirts would gather at the stadium of the Nong Khai provincial administrative organisation on April 11 and leave for Vientiane the next morning.

All on the same bus presumably

Wouldn't like to be in the queue at the border checkpoint on that day