Thread: What makes terrorists?

Originally Posted by mad_dog

In the recent Lebanon-Israel conflict around 1200 Lebanese were killed, mainly civilians. 150 Israelis were killed, mainly soldiers. In the last 6 months over 200 Gazans have been killed compared to two Israeli soldiers.

If the bias of the United Nations, the international media and your own ignorance can make you believe that the Israelis are the innocent victims then you will believe anything.

You can't be that stupid.Did you actually read what I said in previous posts?

I never said that the Israelis were innocent, infact, quite the opposite you fool.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

The fact is, is that terrorism works.

And that's exactly the source of the problem. It does work, so why not use it when you are desperate enough ?

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

"Analogically, the guerrilla fights the war of the flea, and his military enemy suffers the dog's disadvantages. too much to defend, too small, ubiquitous, and agile an enemy to come to grips with. If the war continues long enough--this is the theory--the dog succumbs to exhaustion and anemia without ever having found anything on which to close its jaws or to rake with its claws".

Excellent analogy.

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by ceburat

Originally Posted by mad_dog

In Israel military service is mandatory for men and women, Israelis pay taxes to fund the distruction of the Palestinians and occupation of surrounding countries, the vast majority of Israelis support the systematic degredation of the Palestinain people. In essence Israel is a militarised society this means that all Israelis are legitimate targets. Hamas, the Al Aqsa Martyyrs Brigades, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, FATAH and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine are all valid resistance movements.

So you believe a Palestinain who blows himself up to kill Israelis is justified, even tho he kills say a half-dozen innocent Isralie children?

Is an Israeli pilot who drops defective US Vietnam era cluster bombs on Southern Lebanon in the last 24 hours of conflict trying to kill Hesbollah fighters or Lebanese women and children? The idea that if a sovereign state commits politcal violence it is always legitmate and if a people that don't have a sovereign state commit poltical violence it is always illigitimate is ridiculous. People have a right to defend themselves.

So two wrongs make a right.So you are saying that it is ok to kill innocent children?

In the recent Lebanon-Israel conflict around 1200 Lebanese were killed, mainly civilians. 150 Israelis were killed, mainly soldiers. In the last 6 months over 200 Gazans have been killed compared to two Israeli soldiers.

If the bias of the United Nations, the international media and your own ignorance can make you believe that the Israelis are the innocent victims then you will believe anything.

It would not have anything to do with the fact that Israel evacuated it border towns while hessballoh hide among the civilians who REFUSED TO EVACUATE TO SHOW SUPPORT FOR THE CAUSE !!!!! ( or play the media game) would it????

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by ceburat

Originally Posted by mad_dog

In Israel military service is mandatory for men and women, Israelis pay taxes to fund the distruction of the Palestinians and occupation of surrounding countries, the vast majority of Israelis support the systematic degredation of the Palestinain people. In essence Israel is a militarised society this means that all Israelis are legitimate targets. Hamas, the Al Aqsa Martyyrs Brigades, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, FATAH and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine are all valid resistance movements.

So you believe a Palestinain who blows himself up to kill Israelis is justified, even tho he kills say a half-dozen innocent Isralie children?

Is an Israeli pilot who drops defective US Vietnam era cluster bombs on Southern Lebanon in the last 24 hours of conflict trying to kill Hesbollah fighters or Lebanese women and children? The idea that if a sovereign state commits politcal violence it is always legitmate and if a people that don't have a sovereign state commit poltical violence it is always illigitimate is ridiculous. People have a right to defend themselves.

So two wrongs make a right.So you are saying that it is ok to kill innocent children?

In the recent Lebanon-Israel conflict around 1200 Lebanese were killed, mainly civilians. 150 Israelis were killed, mainly soldiers. In the last 6 months over 200 Gazans have been killed compared to two Israeli soldiers.

If the bias of the United Nations, the international media and your own ignorance can make you believe that the Israelis are the innocent victims then you will believe anything.

Herzbolla hid among the people or put another way-used them for human shiels. What do you expect in a situation like that? Iran and Herzbolla are the ones with blood on their hands.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by ceburat

Freedom fighters do not have to kill women and children. I would fight from the underground to death, but I would not kill innocent people.

well, that's very noble of you, and that probably makes you a better person for not doing it, but a greater cause is at stake here, it goes beyond your personal choice. So what would it be ? survive with maximum casualties for the cause, or just a slow and quiet death with no success ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by ceburat

Freedom fighters do not have to kill women and children. I would fight from the underground to death, but I would not kill innocent people.

well, that's very noble of you, and that probably makes you a better person for not doing it, but a greater cause is at stake here, it goes beyond your personal choice. So what would it be ? survive with maximum casualties for the cause, or just a slow and quiet death with no success ?

Butterfly--If you think I would become a terrorist and blow myself up and kill innocent people to prove a point--you are completely insane.

I would fight to the death and if there was no success- so be it.

Originally Posted by ceburat

I would fight to the death and if there was no success- so be it.

Then your personal choice have failed the cause. Nothing wrong with that if you can bear the thought that you have left thousands of other citizens in the hand of the ennemy.

Oh, and I forget to mention, the invaders is starting to see red, so they start targetting American civilians randomly by excuting them as examples. Not a pretty sight.

But again, it's difficult to blame individuals to fail the cause, we are all flawed.

PS: At least you had the courage to answer the question, while the other supporters failed !!!

Originally Posted by ceburat

Butterfly--If you think I would become a terrorist and blow myself up and kill innocent people to prove a point--you are completely insane.

Actually, I am not done yet with you, let's twist this a bit more.

What if it meant saving your comrades and family ? let's say blowing up a building to save your friends and family ? would you do it ? in that building there are women and children, will you still do it ? honnest question, hard, but honnest

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by mad_dog

In the recent Lebanon-Israel conflict around 1200 Lebanese were killed, mainly civilians. 150 Israelis were killed, mainly soldiers. In the last 6 months over 200 Gazans have been killed compared to two Israeli soldiers.

If the bias of the United Nations, the international media and your own ignorance can make you believe that the Israelis are the innocent victims then you will believe anything.

You can't be that stupid.Did you actually read what I said in previous posts?

I never said that the Israelis were innocent, infact, quite the opposite you fool.

Ok to directly answer your question: no I don't think Israeli children are legitimate targtes. I have a good knowledge of Palestinian terrorism and can't think of one instance where children were direclty targeted, don't forget terrorists have constituencies too and purposly killing children appeals to no one. Women and children are the "collateral damage" in all wars and I condemn that. Dropping a bomb from an f-16 or shelling a Palestinian beach from a warship has EXACTLY the same effect as a Palestinian bombing an Israeli bus.

I find it hard to believe that when a public bus is targetted, that children on the bus are not TARGETED.Same as when an f-16 drops a bomb.

You did say "your own ignorance can make you believe that the Israelis are the innocent victims then you will believe anything."

Care to comment?

^ what a silly question, #1 of course

This is exactly what the Palestinians have done, and what did they get ? more attacks from Israel.

KID, try read a book or something, seriously. I am sure you can be saved.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by ceburat

Butterfly--If you think I would become a terrorist and blow myself up and kill innocent people to prove a point--you are completely insane.

Actually, I am not done yet with you, let's twist this a bit more.

What if it meant saving your comrades and family ? let's say blowing up a building to save your friends and family ? would you do it ? in that building there are women and children, will you still do it ? honnest question, hard, but honnest

That's sort of like a fighter pilot shooting down an airliner that is going to be flown into a building and kill innocent people. You are right, it would be a very hard decision. I'm not sure I could do it and that is the best answer I can give.

However, Butterfly, you are driving this to prove that terriost activities are correct. Such as sucide bombers. No, they are still illmoral, evil and wrong. Completely sick.

I will accept suicide bombing as a legitimate form of warfare--as long as the targets are military and not innocent civilians !!!

Originally Posted by ceburat

However, Butterfly, you are driving this to prove that terriost activities are correct

Interesting choice of words you have here. Correct ? or right ? how about desperate ? there is no right or wrong, only interlaced shades of right and wrong mixed together. Is it the correct decision ? to who ?

Will I do it ? I don't know but if I was desperate enough and angry enough, sure I would.

It's one thing for a suicide bomber to walk up to a military check point and explode himself and maybe the taxi driver across the street get hurt

it's a totally different issue when the suicide bomber walks into a crowd of civilians and explodes himself killing 250 innocent civilians !!!!

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

i think you guys are missing the point. To the terrorist it is not a case of right and wrong. To the terrorist the end justifies the means

Exactly, the cause is what matters.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

Could it have been won without the killing of innocents in massive bombing raids

Probably not. Even the French resistance was killing French citizens in the process, and the allies bombed civilians target in Germany.

Originally Posted by KID

I will accept suicide bombing as a legitimate form of warfare--as long as the targets are military and not innocent civilians !!!

That's a luxury you don't have when you are conducting that type of warfare. You don't choose your targets on moral principle, you choose your targets on how effective they are going to be on your ennemy.

What if the civilians support the war? Civilians are the ones that form public opinion.
How do you change that public opinion? How to convince the public that the war cannot be won by military means and that negotiation and concessions are the only way to end the conflict. Terrorism. To create terror among the civilian population by attacking them directly.
I'm not saying this is right, but, it's logical and it works.
In fact, it is the only way a side that is completely out-gunned can fight.

KID,
What has that nuking people got to do with it?
We are talking about terrorism. I don't agree with Butterfly very often, but, his comment about not choosing targets by moral principle is spot on.
To these people their cause is the most important thing. Anything and everyone is subordinate to that cause.
You stand outside of the conflict, so, have the luxury of declaring what is right and what is wrong.
What I am trying to explain is not my own personal feelings, but, why terrorists do what they do and how they justify it. It's called "putting yourself in someone elses shoes".

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

KID,
What has that nuking people got to do with it?

I think he meant terrorizing the Iraqi civilians, well, what would be left of them, as a desperate measure to win the war. Actually terrorizing the world, for that matter, so everybody knows that the big old USA is not kidding around. Would that be a desperate measure ? you bet. Would that qualify as terrorism ? absolutely.

Case solved. Point made. Thank you Mr KID.