War !!!

**Butterfly** · 22-07-2006, 02:38 PM

With the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon recently, it was a question of time before Israel could find an excuse to come back in and try their expansionist policy with Lebannon. With their lost of Gazza and the "humiliation" that followed, the "military" had to do something. With a weak PM in place and Sharon not recovering, this has become a reality.

Clueless George and his administration can't get their act together and they are too coward to take any real stand. We are witnessing the birth of a new world war. Make no mistake about it, this incursion is about to engage Syria and Iran for a long term conflict with Israel. All too convenient for everybody who think that Iran should be dealt with in military terms.

Start to cover because it's going to get really ugly. We lost the US as a world police officer, they couldn't care less of the destabilization of the region, despite paying for it one way or another.

We are fucked !!!

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israelis mass on Lebanese border

**Marmite the Dog** · 22-07-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

We are fucked !!!

How come? Will it affect us in Thailand?

**Sir Burr** · 22-07-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

With their lost of Gazza and the "humiliation" that followed...

Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza. Nobody "forced" them to do it.
The "humiliation" belongs to the Palistinians by showing the world that they could not administer Gaza, thus throwing doubt on whether they could keep promises if given a country to run.

**Butterfly** · 22-07-2006, 02:57 PM

^ I find this too "easy" as an argument and don't agree. I don't see evidence of their lack of competence. More like a lack of fundings and resources. How dare you say that ?

International and WH pressure "forced" them to withdraw

**Boon Mee** · 22-07-2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ I find this too "easy" as an argument and don't agree. I don't see evidence of their lack of competence. More like a lack of fundings and resources. How dare you say that ?

International and WH pressure "forced" them to withdraw

As the Brits say: "A shower of shite" are the cast-offs from the rest of the Arab world who inhabit Palistine...

**man with no head** · 22-07-2006, 03:02 PM

And how easy is it to govern your "nation" if your big neighbor effectively controls all border crossings, ports, and economic activity?

Israel is afraid of an independent Palestine. They'll never accept that reality.

**Boon Mee** · 22-07-2006, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

And how easy is it to govern your "nation" if your big neighbor effectively controls all border crossings, ports, and economic activity?

Israel is afraid of an independent Palestine. They'll never accept that reality.

It's more like afraid of suicide bombers blowing up more women & children...

**man with no head** · 22-07-2006, 03:35 PM

Maybe they wouldn't have to resort to that if the Israelis treated them like human beings.

Gee, what do you think? An enemy takes your land, rounds you up, and builds a wall around you so that you can't go back on your land. You are left with the worst land that has no water while the enemy takes the best land. Take a look at Google Earth sometime. The hideous difference between Israel and Gaza is quite striking. If I lived in Gaza I'd strap bombs on myself as well to kill those who were militarily and economically killing me.

Naw, I suppose the right thing to do is to send flowers over? "Oh thanks! I hated that land, it was so fertile and had rivers flowing through it. Now that you've kicked me out into the sand I won't have to worry about feeding my family any longer. Thanks so much, here, have a bomb."

**HermantheGerman** · 22-07-2006, 04:19 PM

„I hope the Russians love their children too.” –Sting-
I guess they do and the Cold War is over! But I’m not so sure if the Arabs love their children too. For an Israeli one Jewish life is worth one million .The Israelis have proven this in the past and have done “Everything” to save one life of a Jew. Are the Arabs really so stupid and didn’t know this. Why have they kidnapped Israeli soldiers? THEY WANTED THIS WAR! And they don’t care about their children, wife’s and even grandmother. How low must you be to strap a bomb around a child or a young woman? Of course I don’t agree with all of Israel’s actions or reactions. But the thought of what they are willing to do with THEIR children scares the shit out of me, and that they don’t care about other children.(Russian commandos stormed the school Friday in Bedlam, Russia; it had been taken over by rebels demanding independence for Chechnya. Russian officials said Saturday that the death toll was in the hundreds - many of them children.) These people are willing to do “EVERYTHING”. And even now you see on TV interviews with Muslim mothers in Lebanon stating “THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY”.

I'am an Atheist and dislike all religions.

**stroller** · 22-07-2006, 04:44 PM

This topic is about war between Lebanon and Israel, let's try and focus on this for a bit.

**Boon Mee** · 22-07-2006, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

This topic is about war between Lebanon and Israel, let's try and focus on this for a bit.

Well, south Lebanon is inhabited by 99% Hizzbolla so perhaps they get what they deserve?

**stroller** · 22-07-2006, 06:14 PM

Is this a fact (99%), or a polemic, off-hand attempt to justify Israel's actions?

**Mr Earl** · 22-07-2006, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Butterfly

We are fucked !!!

How come? Will it affect us in Thailand?

Actually it will probably be good for Thailand in the long and the short run.

More and more money and people will seek refuge here.

If you are making USD you will see a slight short term drop until the dollar goes back up. These things are cyclical. The USA clearly has the best hand to play.

I wouldn't want any Hamas or Hezbollah rocket scientists on my team.

**barbaro** · 22-07-2006, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by surasak

And how easy is it to govern your "nation" if your big neighbor effectively controls all border crossings, ports, and economic activity?

Israel is afraid of an independent Palestine. They'll never accept that reality.

It's more like afraid of suicide bombers blowing up more women & children...

Israel does not want an independent Palestine. Demogaphics of the exploding Palestinian population outside and even inside Israel. Also, and independent state could have alliances, etc.

But the Israeli thwarting of any independent state just reinforces the belief by many that this conflict will continue for generations.

**Mr Earl** · 23-07-2006, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Israel does not want an independent Palestine. Demogaphics of the exploding Palestinian population outside and even inside Israel. Also, and independent state could have alliances, etc.

But the Israeli thwarting of any independent state just reinforces the belief by many that this conflict will continue for generations.

This and someone made the point that the USA thrives on the ME instability.
Actually all the big "military industrial nations" stand to gain from continued conflict.
Though the USA is probably more ready to adapt to a peaceful technical focus of it's military industry than Russia or China.

The jihadists are happily providing cannon fodder to support the very people they hate so much.

Not the sharpest pencils in the box are they?

**forreachingme** · 23-07-2006, 07:06 AM

It is open air rock pop concert season all over Europe, but some other places...

Just seen both sides Lebanon and Israelis on TV...Very young as usual, immature people are told to go out there and fire shoot whatever, get killed and kill...

20 years later if they still live they will rethink about the stupidity to have followed orders of idiots on power at that ealier times...

Good to hear movements against war are starting to move in major cities around Europe !

I still love the slogan: Imagine there is war, but nobody goes to join it

It is proven and well known actually that destruction and force never helps solve such problems, even extermination very rarely or never worked beetween humans. But Bushy seems not to know it ! Prefers anyway to watch unemployment rate decline and his shares in weapon industry gain...

So sad we can do so little or even nothing to help or change anything...

May be the rockers and popers should shout out loud some sympathie, could it help...

**attaboy** · 23-07-2006, 10:45 AM

Anti-war Tel Aviv rally draws Jewish, Israeli Arab crowd

More than 2,500 people on Saturday attended a mass demonstration against the war in Lebanon, marching from Tel Aviv's Rabin Square to a rally at the Cinemateque plaza.

The rally was the first of its kind protesting against the IDF's offensive in Lebanon. Unlike previous anti-war protests in israel, major Arab organizations in Israel - among them Hadash and Balad -participated in the event in large numbers.

These Jewish and Arab groups ordinarily shy away from joint activity. They couldn't come up with a unifying slogan this time either, except for the call to stop the war and start talking.

The rally, which received wide international press coverage, had a theme unfamiliar from previous demonstrations here. Beside the usual calls for the prime minister and defense minister to resign, this was a distinctly anti-American protest. Alongside chants of "We will not kill, we will not die in the name of Zionism" there were chants of "We will not die and
ill not kill in the service of the United States," and slogans condemning President George W. Bush

Anti-war Tel Aviv rally draws Jewish, Israeli Arab crowd - Haaretz - Israel News

**man with no head** · 23-07-2006, 10:51 AM

It's funny, the lack of any concern here when the bombs are falling in Lebanon. The pro-Israeli press is having an easy time convincing the sheep here that the incursion is a legitimate operation...though the images of damage and death are starting to be shown more and more.

I suspect if this drags on the Americans who oppose the war in Iraq ought to be more vocal about the mess Israel is creating in Lebanon. What legitimate operations are being served by killing hundreds of innocent Lebanese?

**Boon Mee** · 23-07-2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by attaboy

and slogans condemning President George W. Bush
News

Of course it's all Dubya's fault.
Heard Global Warming is too! LOL

**man with no head** · 23-07-2006, 01:57 PM

Global warming is largely the fault of America. Using 25% of the world's energy for only 5% of the population?

George "Born Again" Bush is responsible for the bloodshed going on right now. No other President in the history of the US has been this one-sided when it comes to policy in the Middle East. Funny how 'compassionate conservatism' doesn't apply to anyone who's non-Christian or non-Jewish.

**stroller** · 23-07-2006, 02:12 PM

You're being over-simplistic now, surasak.
But, well, more articulate than the 'quality' comment you responded to. LoL

**man with no head** · 23-07-2006, 02:33 PM

Not really. The problems of global warming and the Middle East are interrelated and both largely the fault of the biggest consumer of oil on the planet.

In 2002 the United States emitted 5.6 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide, 1.8 billion of which comes from vehicles.

The whole mess in the Middle East revolves around the oil reserves.

Not only is American's overconsumption leading to the very crisis that is playing out in Lebanon today but is also going to affect those not even in the Middle East when the climate starts changing.

Where does the money come from to fight in the Middle East? Where do the weapons come from?

Every time a new SUV is sold in America the owner indirectly gives another $20,000 over the lifetime of the vehicle to the oil rich states which is used to finance their arms purchases due to wasteful consumption of gasoline.

**Boon Mee** · 23-07-2006, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

You're being over-simplistic now, surasak.
But, well, more articulate than the 'quality' comment you responded to. LoL

It's all quality all the time!

**friscofrankie** · 23-07-2006, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

Global warming is largely the fault of America. Using 25% of the world's energy for only 5% of the population?

George "Born Again" Bush is responsible for the bloodshed going on right now. No other President in the history of the US has been this one-sided when it comes to policy in the Middle East. Funny how 'compassionate conservatism' doesn't apply to anyone who's non-Christian or non-Jewish.

You know there is a theory; (Much like your touted gasoline consumption causes "global warming") that "global warming" is a natural occuring event, there is another school of thought on the "hole in the Ozone" as well. Seems we only found it as soon as the technology was available to do so.

This "hole" would appear to have been around a for a good while, the South pacific has always had a more intense sun and higher temperatures that the rest of the planet. Discussions of the "South pacific Sun" have been heard as long as folks been traveling there.

That the war(s) in the Middle-East are a dangerous thing and have the potential of triggering a "Third World War" is very real in my mind. That GWB is a moronic puppet inclined to let the world go to hell in bucket for the sake of his puppeteers profits is also very real. Pulling in "global warming" is just another crackpot OTT argument that lends credence to labels such as, "liberal."

The War(s) in the Middle-East and the Jews in particular are the biggest threat to worl peace to come down the pike since Addy and his boys. That my country supports them, in some seemingly lap-dog blind obedienace is... Fuck! I am at a loss for words to describe how utterly wrong our ME policies have been and things are getting worse. I might have to agree with some points in the OP Things ahve gotten so bad primarily due to the unwavering US support of the Israelis.

The whole fuckin country is ne big fuckin army with damn near every citizen trained in war. Invadng them would be tough. Since they have all our technology, and they sell sell their stuff (learned from us) to our enemies they need to wiped off the planet and the fucking country (Israel) disolved. The United states must rethink it's policy in the Middle-East and give israel one might bitch-slap. We pull all aid, sign a pact with their biggest enemies and help them to either to lear to get along with the folks that have been there for centuries or wipe 'em off the planet. If their policies and behavior doesn't change they certainly do not deserve any help from us.

We (the US) helped to create this mess. We certainly don't need to take over the area to get all the oil, after all, as so many folks have so eloquently put it The US is their biggest customer and will most likely remain so for the next few generations. Who the fuck else is gonna buy all lthat oil? China? Hardly. I think it's time the US cleaned up it's own mess, starting with either bringing the Isaelis in line or reducing their country to rubble.

**attaboy** · 24-07-2006, 12:20 AM

George "Born Again" Bush

The common link. George Bush the hub of all our problems.

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20 year old, and at a strange concert...

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